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What Do You Fear?
What do you fear, and why? Is it holding you back from realizing your full potential?
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Do you crave destiny? (Part 2)
Destiny? Is this really me? Was I really born for great things?
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Send me more on the subject as to retiring Christians and how to stay involved.I am 76 and feeling out of the loop because I no longer can “run the speed of the younger women in church”because of health issues.Maybe we can claim retiredness,when we have tto.Where does one go from Here?
As the above person as mention, me myself as been trying to unsubscribe from this e-mail and had no success, Please delete from your list. I am getting the same devotion twice under different sites
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Theresa
I currently have been receiving your devotions at two different addresses. I have been trying to unsubscribe for this e-mail address, having sent blank messages to the unsubscribe address several time with no effect. Please delete the above address from your distrubition list.
Thank You,
Pat
Well, I’m joining in the discussion again on this site although I miss the old site and its contributors. I think that ‘education’ has a lot to do with belief. It’s obvious that emmzee and Jan have absorbed the lessons they were taught or taught themselves. It’s just as obvious that Blake and Matt are very interested, but do not have the same facts in their backgrounds. They are learning from Dan Brown’s book and the movie, and accepting as real the various premises made rherein. The symbols they accept are interpreted differently now than those symbols were in the distant past. That’s quite normal — we accept what is given to us as true until something newer comes along. But we should be prepared either to defend the original or acclaim the new. We shouldn’t just go along with the crowd either way, which is the Dan Brown way. Regardless of whether or not he advertised his work as ‘fiction’ the ideas in the story stick in the mind. For instance, the Grail has always been seen as the cup or goblet or bowl or saucer used by Christ at the Last Supper when He said “This is my blood…” It makes no sense at all to change the Grail into a person, as Brown did in making Mary Magdalene the symbol of that cup,and of a deep, dark secret. Though secrets are always fun, aren’t they?
Hi Blake, you’ve made an interesting point, I never considered the anointing angle. I think you’re correct that Mary was the only human who anointed Jesus; but Jesus’ anointing also came from the Father. Consider that Jesus is baptised by John the Baptist (Luke 3:21,22) where “the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove”. This was a spiritual anointing. Then shortly afterwards Jesus applies a passage from Isaiah to himself when he proclaims that “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me, to preach good news to the poor.” (Luke 4:18). Paul also notes how the Father “anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power” (Acts 10:38). The title ‘Christ’ literally means “anointed”, as in, “the anointed one”, ie, by God. Also, it would be very strange for the gospel authors to accurately record every detail about this event but leave out the fact that they were married. So, while it is noteworthly that Jesus was anointed by the woman (who may or may not have been Mary Magdalene) I think God’s anointing could be even more important in this context.
It’s fun to consider this kinda stuff, as long as these peripheral issues don’t distract us from the central gospel message. :)
I found the book & movie to be interesting. Of course it is speculative in some areas, fact in others and perhaps pure fancy in others. I would like to leave you folks with my take on MM and her purpose (if any) in the life of Jesus. Its said that the natural testifies to the Spiritual. Its not the Spiritual but simply something man is doing in the natural which is testimony of something much higher. On Gods red earth, man has always, ALWAYS had ceremony when a King is to be made. The King is annointed King. The royal family is represented at this ceremony and of course the vatican always provided the Priest, Bishop, Cardinal or whomever. When we look at scripture, the only ONLY time we see Jesus being “annointed” is the scene with MM. Now of course it was a foregone conclusion that he was to be King in his Fathers eyes but still it had to play out in the natural here on earth so that it will be as it IS in Heaven. She is annointing his feet with expensive oil and her hair. The only way she could be at his feet and using her hair is if she is on her knees, face down. The universal sign of submission. “wives will submit to their husbands” sound familiar? If I was an artist and someone approached me to do a painting representing the ultimate image of a man and his woman a Groom and his Bride. I could think of no greater scene then the one mentioned above. I’d like to mention one other thing before I close and that is the 1st and 2nd (new) Adam. The first had a woman, they shared a garden. Why is it a stretch to think that the 2nd had one as well. The first was a type of what was to come. Type & Shaddow. As woman came out of the first Adam, she (spiritually) goes back into the 2nd. The two become ONE once more! Hey, its all fun to think of things, who knows, one day perhaps we’ll have the answers. Take care All, blake
I didn’t get a clear look at the image you mentioned however, if it is maeant to be a woman, could this be Mary the mother of Jesus? She and not MM have been traditionally honoured in Christian art. Who else is said to be depicted there? Does it include Matthias, Judas, or Paul as the twelth disciple?
Emmzee- I saw the image in person at the museum…and it looks very much like a woman… more so than a man-alot more so! Especially next to all of the other bearded saints. That is why I posted this here, on this “DaVinci Code ” site, because I thought it was interesting and that others might think so too. Mary Magdalene being a major part of the ministry of Jesus, or maybe his wife, etc.is what the book and the movie are about. The theme of the story uses DaVinci’s “Last Supper” as a depiction of this possibility. And although not famous like the “Last Supper”, this relief is in a major museum in a major city and apparently has been overlooked. I thought it deserved a little attention because, just like “the Last Supper”, this church relief is from the same period of time in the same area of the world with a similar possible depiction. That it is entitled “Christ and the Twelve Disciples” is something that the Museum came up with to describe the piece, which is from the dismantling of, or the ruins of a church in Normandy, and I doubt had a title plate attached to it. As for the fact that it was created 1400 years after Christ doesn’t necessarily mean that Mary Magdalene wasn’t being honored in this carving..especially in France, where Mary Magdalene is legendary, and revered in some regions. The artist doesn’t seem to have depicted Judas, who is usually holding a sack of coins or a noose, and if it’s there I couldn’t see it. Thus making room for MM, maybe. I don’t know. As for your statement about “the Grail ,a cup ,or Mary herself..it can’t be both” I agree. What I wrote was ” this figure might very well be Mary Magdalene,and not only might she be the Holy Grail, she?s holding it in her left hand just to prove it!” , and what I meant by that was that she IS the Holy Grail and that in her hand is a symbol, a grail, of what she is. Just like, I’m guessing, all the items that the other saints are holding are a symbol of what they are.Just like a cross is a symbol of what Jesus is .And as for the book in hand being closed meaning “she’s got a secret”–I just threw that out there! I don’t know what it means symbolically, but do I know that a “closed book” ,as opposed to an “open book “,usually refers to something being mysterious and unknowable, metaphorically.
That being said,what is “seen” in this relief , like “Davinci’s Last Supper” is in the eye of the beholder. I see a woman- you don’t. I see the grail in her hand as being a symbol of what she is…one in the same. You don’t. I think this relief is interesting…you don’t. I am only presenting this relief as another example, one of the very few, of what an important role Mary Magdalene might have played in the history of Christianity. Of course, my evidence is “Shabby”. I have none. Nevertheless, the image is a potent one, and makes a person think that a church in Normandy, six centuries ago ,thought Mary Magdalene was important enough to be portrayed as being on the same level as the other disciples, and that, at the very least, if not Jesus’s wife, was one of the twelve disciples herself. Then again, it could be St. John! But it sure looks like a woman to me………
For those who would rather just view the relief art described by Matt above, here’s the direct link:
http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/mwebcgi/mweb.exe?request=image;hex=50_33_11;path=Eps_MM;imagedata=2
I should note that most of the arguments against this being Mary given in the “Did da Vinci paint Mary Magdalene in The Last Supper?” article apply to this artwork too. But here the evidence is even worse. Firstly, the name given to this piece is the “The Twelve Disciples”. Secondly, it, like the Last Supper, was created at least 1400 years after Christ’s death. Moreover, the following argument makes no sense: “not only might she be the Holy Grail, she?s holding it in her left hand just to prove it” If Mary IS the Holy Grail, why would she be holding it in her hand? Is the Grail a cup, or is it Mary herself? It can’t be both.
“Obviously a Woman! It?s evident to me that she was entrusted with some very valuable knowledge, as she holds the most prominently placed book, and because the book is closed it might symbolize that she?s got a secret.” That’s some pretty big claims based on one piece of artwork done by an unknown (at least, not famous) artist in the 15th or 16 century. I don’t think it’s so obvious. It’s amazing the kind of evidence people require of the Bible, but how shabby evidence people are willing to follow when it comes to conspiracy theories.
Attention Grail Seekers!
I have found a depiction of the main premise of the book and movie right here in Los Angeles ! Last week, at the LA County Museum of Art after viewing the “returned ” nazi confiscated Gustav Klimt paintings, I stumbled upon a huge stone carved relief from Normandy, France dated 1450-1500 in the religious art section on the 2nd floor. What I saw was” Christ and the Twelve disciples”, all bearded and masculine, except for one long haired ,beardless ,feminine figure three from the left of Jesus, holding a book and a chalice. This image of a woman; is just as potent a depiction of the sacred feminine as Da Vinci’s Last Supper. Now, this is not a “last supper scene,” they’re all just standing there in a row enthroned in heaven, I guess, but this figure might very well be Mary Magdalene, and not only might she be the Holy Grail, she’s holding it in her left hand just to prove it ! In her right hand she holds a book, as some of the others do, but hers is the most clearly defined, and she is the only one multi-tasking! Obviously a Woman! It’s evident to me that she was entrusted with some very valuable knowledge, as she holds the most prominently placed book, and because the book is closed it might symbolize that she’s got a secret. the other saints hold various items,some books, mostly open, staffs or swords.The relief was carved 1450 at the earliest , which makes it 50 years before DaVinci’s Last Supper was painted, or if it was carved by 1500,makes it contemporary with it. Carved in France, which is where MM supposedly went to after the crucifixion and where she is still much revered ,and always has been, in certain parts. I have seen other early images where St. John and Mary are ambiguous,like DaVinci, but none with the Grail in hand. I can’t attach the photo from LACMA’s site, but if you want,go to LACMA online Gallery, http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/ click “Collections”, Find “European Sculpture(new material), then to “Browse by Type of Sculpture”, and finally “Relief”. The image is usually at the bottom of the second page, but moves around to other pages it seems..? It is called “Christ and the twelve disciples”and is grey colored and with carved niches in the Gothic style. She is third from the left of Jesus, as you look at it. Happy Grail Hunting!
I fail to see the relevance of your comment to this post.
However, we have been talking about Leonardo da Vinci and the subject matter of some of his artwork. If you see the top of this website is says that we are discussing the Da Vinci Code. If you are unimpressed with our choice of domain name, please understand that there were no bait and switch tactics used.
Right now, most conversations about Leonardo da Vinci revolve around the book/movie. Central to that story is not Leonardo himself, but central is the coverup he supposedly protected, that is the fable of Jesus and Mary’s marriage, bloodline, and that Jesus’ divinity was an invention some 300 years later.
It is to that topic that this site was designed to discuss. However, we’ve followed many rabbit trails because we see them as important. However, there will be no apologies for our desire to discuss The Da Vinci Code and the issues it brings up.
Hi,
This site is built to discuss the DaVinci Code and what it brings out. Dan Brown talked alot about the church and Jesus.
I believe the internet is a medium, just like tv, radio or paper. I think that the Information Super Highway has room on it to discuss Leonardo or Jesus.
Let’s talk about the questions you asked.
“So why aren?t there more people who can think like DaVinci?”
From what I know about Leonardo, he was a genius, an inventor as well as quite an amazing artist. That’s about all I know for sure. What else about DaVinci do you want to talk about.
What I know about Jesus is that he is more than just a preacher man. He claimed, and through many signs and wonders, showed that he was the Son of God.
People turn to religion when they realize that there is more to life than waking up in the morning and trying to make it through the day without getting hit by a bus.
Personally, I didn’t turn to religion. Religion is man’s way to try and get to heaven. Religion is thinking that humans have the ability to transform their lives on their own so they can earn their way to heaven.
I believe, and this is what the Bible teaches, that there is no way I can fix myself. It is only through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and the subsequent resurrection that I have any hope of being pure enough to stand before God at the judgement.
I was told about this site and I thought people are here to DISCUSS DAVINCI and learn something useful. This site apparently is about Jesus Christ. Don’t people go to church for stuff like that? The Internet is a place of for learning. Let’s talk about DaVinci the inventor and genius instead.
So why aren’t there more people who can think like DaVinci? What kind of upbringing produced that kind of a man? Perhaps one can compare a scientist like DaVinci to a preacher man like Jesus here too. That might allow us to understand why some people turn to religion.
The discussion surrounding The Da Vinci Code is a wonderful thing I think. For a very long time people have ignored anything older than a very few years. The fact that a fiction novel has created such an uproar is amazing. Dan Brown used real settings and created an air of suspended disbelief in doing so. He did it so well that people seem to think the entire “novel” is a historical doctument. It isn’t. It isn’t a textbook or a spiritual awakening either. It is a novel and an extremely interesting one too. Fast action, great characters and the backdrop of historical areas. Readers aren’t supposed to change religions reading it. They are supposed to enjoy the thing. I did. If Jesus had married would it make him less of a divine being? I think not. Marriage isn’t a sin the last time I checked. Dan Brown spun a unique and powerful story with just the right blend of fact and fantasy to make it believable and readable. We should thank him. Christians are studying to prove him wrong and others to prove hime right. “Hearing” or reading about scripture and history can’t be wrong. The evil in the world thrives on ignorance. “You go Mr. Brown.” Let’s have another.
the outbreak of fanatism regarduing whether the book is “THE TRUTH” or not is just exemplary of the deterioration of the “groundedness” of the human race. We feel the urge to run after things that have the feeling of anti conventional in today’s world. 2 bi polar views creating divides in the world – of those who believe and those who oppose – on just a piece of flight fiction !!!!!
the church has for many years hidden many secrets and performed many injustices. today in the world where internet has made communities come together with the click of a button, many so called societal authories including multi nationals are fearing of losing their hold over people. it just goes to show that – you cant fool all the people all of the time