Can You Connect to God Without Religion?
Is there a difference between God and Religion? There is definitely a difference between God and religion. God is someone I have a relationship with. My view on God can be altered by many factors in my life. It can be affected by my relationship with my own father or even by my culture and the people I spend time with.
I see religion is a set of beliefs that have guidelines for behavior associated with them. There are many religions with many differing beliefs and rules. I don’t think God needs religion. He wants to have a relationship with me. It is so easy for me to get confused and think that my relationship with him has rules of engagement. I love knowing that God cares about me and that my relationship with him does not need a lot of order and structure. I want to participate in religion or church to celebrate his holiness, but it’s not a condition of knowing God. Do you believe you can you connect to God without religion?
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Tom- Those verses have to do with repenting and being born again, nothing about judging people. As I said sure you can judge something as a sin but I would be careful, just in case…
Chris-
1. isaiah 7.14 Jesus was never refereed to as “Immanuel”
2. micah 5.2
In full context:
1Marshal your troops now, city of troops,
for a siege is laid against us.
They will strike Israel’s ruler
on the cheek with a rod.
2“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clansa of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.”
3Therefore Israel will be abandoned
until the time when she who is in labor bears a son,
and the rest of his brothers return
to join the Israelites
Looks like a prophecy for the messiah.
4. deuteronomy 18…a prophet like moses
Jesus never claimed to be a prophet, he made many references to being God or the son of god/son of man (same thing) but never a prophet.
6. 10Now the eyes of Israel were dim with age, so that he could not see. So Joseph brought them near him, and he kissed them and embraced them.?
Jesus was not on the cross for days and nights, and the Gospel of Luke informs us that God certainly heard the prayer Jesus uttered the previous night. He sent an angel to help bolster his courage. Yet this Psalm opens with a cry that is the desperation felt from having no answer for, at the very least, a whole day and night.
Daniel has other failed prophecies.
As for 9…Every generation since the generation of the first disciples thought Christ was going to return in their generation.
to Kenneth– the email saying about free will we all have free will to a point Christians has the bible the world has a book too like driving rules if someone has a free will and drives through a light and bangs into you and he says I am using my free will but yet he will get a ticket if not jail maybe I am sorry you don’t believe in God HE has been my life also we all have our own opinion and is private but if asked I will say what God did for me in my life I know you probably don’t believe in prayer but I am praying for you and others who don’t believe
Kenneth—
Most of what you have explained about your spiritual life seems to deal with what you are doing in trying to improve and “be the best person” you can be and keeping “your soul as pure as possible.” You say you “have a standard” that you’re trying to improve upon. Those things are commendable, but how do you know your standard is good enough to please God? Do you know what God’s standard for being good enough is? Are you aware that God has given us the standard by which we will be finally judged?
Hi tom
I don’t know that our opinions contradict each other and the crazy thing is…both opinions are right.
I have a standard that im trying to improve upon everyday (recently I have been recognizing and changing my passive aggressive behavior) and then I have unconditional standards (many right in line with Jesus’ teachings) that I can not waiver from and I feel it deep inside me.
As for knowing if you are going to heaven. Well I can only answer for me as to how to keep your ‘soul’ as pure as possible. Remember I believe God is within us all and for me, once I found God within I always know when my intentions are not in line with Gods plan. It’s now a new constant daily journey to continue to grow and be the best person I can be and hopefully only bring out the best in others.
Maybe your Christian belief is right for you and Hinduism might be right for someone else and God Within is right for me with the bottom line being we are all searching for God and answers to make us better people, the world a better place and maybe even deliver stronger wiser spirits to the big show.
Religions are like blood types. Why are there so many blood types but they all serve the same purpose, life, just don’t mix certain types together :)
So Kenneth, if your opinion contradicts my opinion (or anyone else’s) can both opinions be right? If your opinion is wrong, would you want to know before it is too late?
If you don’t have an unchanging standard or absolute of what is right and wrong, how would you know your “experience” is right or wrong? The Bible gives such an unchanging standard.
Based on your view of people “searching” themselves and practicing the good while fighting the bad, how will that person know if they are good enough to go to heaven?
No you may not ask me any questions ;)? My relationship with god is very personal and just my opinion.
God is within all of us, what does that mean?
I’m saying that some do not need a book to ttell them what to believe and what is right or wrong. They have done the purest soul searching with pure intent. They know and accept the good and the bad within themselves and practice nurturing the good and fighting the bad daily. Finding god without outside influence on ones own is a powerful experience.
Regarding religions contradicting each other. I like to look at it the other way and find the similarities of love, tolerance, unselfishness, forgiveness, non judgemental etc. religion has been spread and used for power and control for long enough in my opinion
Saying this without preaching ;) The god I know would NEVER force someone to believe through fear and would actually not force or preach or evangelize to gain a following and religious power. Things will sift themselves out through a kind of organic purification (gotta love free will). W
Kenneth—
Thanks for your comments. May I ask you some questions about them?
1) When you say that “God is within all of us,” what exactly do you mean?
2) You say we should not discourage anyone’s belief system. Is that because you believe all beliefs are true? When it comes to religious beliefs, since all of them are different from the others and contradict each other, doesn’t the law of contradiction demand that they are either all wrong or that only one can be right?
3) What do you make of Jesus’ statement that he is the ONLY way to heaven? (John 14:6)
God is within all if us. People search and find god in many ways and we should not discourage or disparage anyone’s belief system. I do find it very interesting that a number of comments from different people (who have found god on their own) have a very very very similar understanding of god and how god operates. Peace and keep god within
Seon–
Yes he did teach love and forgiveness. And it shows great love to go out of your way and out of your comfort zone to tell someone they are on their way to an eternity separated from God.
Since you read the gospels, read what Jesus said in John 3:3, John 3:36, and Luke 13:3.
Reading is the first step. Obeying is what God expects.
I pray you will open your heart to the love and forgiveness of Jesus, humbly turn from your sins, and trust in Christ alone. He will not only change your life, he will change your eternity.
Lol oh is that all?
But yeah I guess sharing your faith can be taken the wrong way by someone, just remember Jesus also taught love and forgiveness (the parable of the unforgiving servant) see, I read the gospels.
Seon–
You are correct about the possibility of having unconfessed sin Seon, and that’s why a Christian should take judging others very seriously and cautiously. However, when a Christian has asked the Holy Spirit to point out any sin and they confess that sin to the Lord, they are not acting hypocritically to judge another.
More and more these days people are tagging those who preach the gospel as being intolerant. I have many times been told by a finger-pointing individual that “You have no right to judge me,” when all I’m doing is pointing out that in God’s economy they are sinners on the way to hell if they don’t repent and trust in Christ. Those things are part of the gospel message—things which Jesus did on a regular basis. What they really don’t like is the intolerance of God to not allow them to just keep on being disobedient to him. Christians just happen to be the messenger.
But that’s the thing, you might have sinned and not realized it and judged someone, only Jesus is without sin. Are you seriously comparing yourself to Jesus?
When he allegedly Resurrected he told his followers to go out into all nations and preach the gospel. So preaching isn’t the same as judging others, plus Christians can still judge a sin just not the sinner.
Seon–
Jesus made that statement to the Pharisees specifically because they were constantly playing policeman against every infraction of the law—both God’s moral law the Ten Commandments and their own more than 600 laws, while constantly ignoring their own sinful heart against God. Jesus roundly chastised them as being like “white-washed tombs,” looking good on the outside but full of decay on the inside. In other words, they were hypocrites and had no right to judge.
Because the sin nature is not eradicated when a person is born again, all Christians will in the heat of the moment think, do, or say something sinful. However, Jesus died to pay for ALL of their sins—past, present, and future. Technically a Christian is forgiven only once, at the time of their repentance and trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ. However, the Christian is expected to acknowledge (confess) any known sins on an ongoing basis so that their fellowship with the Father stays close. If the Christian has NOT confessed some known sin, they would be a hypocrite to start pointing fingers at others. Most Christians I know try to keep short accounts with the Lord by daily confessing all known sins.
Seon–
I’m assuming your statement is in a joking manner, since everyone in the world is intolerant about something. Even God is intolerant . . . of sin. Nothing wrong with certain intolerances.
What are you intolerant of Seon?
And Tom Jesus also said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. How can you know for sure you are truly without sin? Don’t Christians still sin but are forgiven by Jesus?
Oh, so you are admitting Christians have to be intolerant now?!
Seon–
Unfortunately, you are doing what’s called “taking a scripture out of context.” In order to understand the true meaning of scripture, you must read the entire context of what is being said.
Let’s look at the entire section:
Matthew 7:1-5 says, “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
Jesus is speaking about the sin of judging hypocritically. He’s saying you shouldn’t judge someone else unless you are sure you, yourself, are without sin in that regard. Notice that the last sentence does, in fact, indicate that judging someone else is acceptable.
The apostle Paul wrote in Galatians 6:1 “Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.” When a Christian sees another Christian sinning, they are to carefully and lovingly correct the sinning person.
Finally, if Christians weren’t supposed to “judge” others, they would not be able to preach the gospel. It is the unbeliever who thinks they are being judged, and rightfully so. Better to be judged by a Christian now then by God later.
Plus anyone who read the Bible would know Jesus said judge not let ye be judged, let he who is without sin cast the first stone and that god will judge us as harshly as we judge each other. So genuine Christians don’t judge.
CJ–
As with all of your previous posts, you do not respond to questions or comments. You simply make unqualified, unsubstantiated, personal opinion statements. As before, that precludes a conversation. Sorry, I can’t go there.
Tom
Tom you are a Christian. You are intolerant. GOD had nothing whatsoever
to do with what you are now, GOD would not inspire anyone to create the sort of scripture that encourages intolerance, Those who are drawn to that type of scripture are prone to intolerance. Perhaps another negative spiritual force inspired men to create a book that teaches intolerance. Satan loves intolerant people.
CJ–
So, you admit there is a difference between calling oneself a Christian and BEING a Christian?
CJ–
What do you mean by intolerant?
Tom
A real Christian is intolerant.
CJ–
No, MAN is of many minds. In God’s single mind, a Christian is a person who has been born again spiritually by the supernatural act of God. While human (note MAN) Christians may have minor differences in their interpretation of scripture causing them to form various denominations, true Christians ALWAYS have the individual trait of rebirth.
(By the way–some of the groups you mentioned are not even considered Christian but cults because they do NOT believe in Jesus Christ as God in human form and therefore they are NOT born again.)
Tom
GOD must be of many minds. GOD’s minds has motivated men to =divide Christianity into many faiths, There are the Baptists. The Evangelists, The Seventh Day adventists, The Jehovah Witnesses, The Anglicans and The Roman Catholics.
CJ–
The New Testament is, in reality, drawn from only ONE source—the Mind of God. (2 Peter 1:20-21, But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”)
Oh, and just because there are similarities in something doesn’t mean they are all true or that one is derived from the other. Ten years before the Titanic sunk there was a fiction novel about the greatest steam ship ever built. It was called the Titan. Unfortunately, it did not carry enough life boats for all the people and when it hit an iceberg, it sank. The book was fiction. The Titanic sinking was historical fact. Mythology is called that because it is myths. Jesus Christ and the New Testament are historical facts. I’ll stick with the real thing Jack.
Tom
The new Testament is indeed drawn from many sources. One of them is Roman mythology. The story of Jesus is remarkably similar to the story of
Hercules. So an oft repeated story must be true. Emperor Constantine created a sword that resembled the cross described in the myth about Jesus. A book Tom that you would enjoy reading is “Constantine’s Sword” by James Carroll.
Seon–
While you’re waiting for the list of some biblical prophecies, how about some scientific facts from the Bible that were described therein centuries before scientists discovered them:
Scientific Facts in the Bible
1. Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. Hebrews 11:3 tells us that the “things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”
2. Medical science has only recently discovered that blood-clotting in a newborn reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day.
3. At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space: “He…hangs the earth upon nothing” (Job 26:7).
4. The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: “It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth” (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptics maintain, but to a sphere. Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later. At a time when science believed that the earth was flat, is was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world.
5. God told Job in 1500 B.C.: “Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?” (Job 38:35). The Bible here is making what appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement—that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you know that radio waves travel at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. Science didn’t discover this until 1864 when “British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing” (Modern Century Illustrated Encyclopedia).
6. Job 38:19 asks, “Where is the way where light dwells?” Modern man has only recently discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a “way,” traveling at 186,000 miles per second.
7. Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7: “When the morning stars sang together…”
8. “Most cosmologists (scientists who study the structures and evolution of the universe) agree that the Genesis account of creation, in imagining an initial void, may be uncannily close to the truth” (Time, Dec. 1976).
9. Solomon described a “cycle” of air currents two thousand years before scientists “discovered” them. “The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits” (Ecclesiastes 1:6).
10. Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 B.C.: “In the beginning [time] God created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter] . . . And the Spirit of God moved [motion] upon the face of the waters.” The first thing God tells man is that He controls all aspects of the universe.
11. The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in our body’s mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent years. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were “bled,” and many died because of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: “For the life of the flesh is in the blood.”
12. All things were made by Him (see John 1:3), including dinosaurs. Why then did the dinosaur disappear? The answer may be in Job 40:15–24. In this passage, God speaks about a great creature called “behemoth.” Some commentators think this was a hippopotamus. However, the hippo’s tail isn’t like a large tree, but a small twig. Following are the characteristics of this huge animal: It was the largest of all the creatures God made; was plant-eating (herbivorous); had its strength in its hips and a tail like a large tree. It had very strong bones, lived among the trees, drank massive amounts of water, and was not disturbed by a raging river. He appears impervious to attack because his nose could pierce through snares, but Scripture says, “He that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.” In other words, God caused this, the largest of all the creatures He had made, to become extinct.
13. Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: “And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean” (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under “running water.”
14. Luke 17:34–36 says the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will occur while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night at the same time.
15. “During the devastating Black Death of the fourteenth century, patients who were sick or dead were kept in the same rooms as the rest of the family. People often wondered why the disease was affecting so many people at one time. They attributed these epidemics to ‘bad air’ or ‘evil spirits.’ However, careful attention to the medical commands of God as revealed in Leviticus would have saved untold millions of lives. Arturo Castiglione wrote about the overwhelming importance of this biblical medical law: ‘The laws against leprosyin Leviticus 13 may be regarded as the first model of sanitary legislation’ (A History of Medicine).” Grant R. Jeffery, The Signature of God With all these truths revealed in Scripture,how could a thinking person deny that the Bible is supernatural in origin? There is no other book in any of the world’s religions (Vedas, Bhagavad-Gita, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc.) that contains scientific truth. In fact, they contain statements that are clearly unscientific. Hank Hanegraaff said, “Faith in Christ is not some blind leap into a dark chasm, but a faith based on established evidence.”
Seon—
And I’m glad you are asking these questions. The beauty of Christianity is that you don’t have to check your brain at the door to believe it. You can look at the evidence to see its reality for yourself.
Now the point is we’re trying to establish that the Bible is completely trustworthy, and we’re doing that by logic and objective reasoning. Can we trust what the Bible says? Considering the time period and by whom it was written, if there are no archeological, scientific, or historical problems with it, that’s tremendous evidence for its validity. For a moment, let’s compare the Bible with the Book of Mormon, a book which was supposedly given by angelic revelation directly to just one person, Joseph Smith. Historically, it contradicts many known historical facts about people, places, and events. It even states such un-scientific things as a boat that had a hole in the bottom so that if the boat took on any water you could pull the plug in the bottom to let the water out! Archeologically, it contradicts what we have found about tools, equipment, animals, and peoples. Scientifically, it contradicts DNA evidence when it says that the Native Americans were descendants from Israelites, when DNA evidence clearly shows they are descendants from Asians. Because of these things, it would be blind faith to believe the Book of Mormon to be from an omniscient God.
As for New Testament authors borrowing from others, isn’t that the exact thing that’s done with modern day textbooks and non-fiction writing? There is nothing subversive about that. Non-fiction books are typically loaded with footnotes showing original sources. However, if the book you were reading CONTRADICTED the other documentation, either the original or the new would have to be wrong. If NT writers took others’ material and added their own “spin” to it, there would no doubt be inexplicable contradictions. Yet the New Testament continues the same seamless story that the Old Testament began, without contradiction of either the Old or New Testament writings—further proof of the supernatural basis for the Bible.
As for the prophecies, my original post is still awaiting moderation. Hang in there through today. If the post doesn’t get released, I’ll try to give you the info in some other form.
I find the archeological stuff interesting but it just proves the places existed and some of the characters were based on historical characters or that whoever first told the stories were indeed from that area.
So what about the prophecies?
Anyway, the authors could have still piggy backed from one another. For example, maybe whoever wrote Matthew added to the gospel of mark story that was going around at the time and put his spinn on it and then Luke and John? It could be the same with the other authors.
And yes, for non believers using the Bible to prove the Bible is like someone who believes in the Hindu gods using the Hindu writings to prove to you the Hindu scriptures are real.
I’m still glad to be able to finally discuss these things I have been curious about.
Seon—
As for your concern about using the Bible to prove the Bible being circular reasoning:
The Bible is not one book. The Bible is a collection of 66 works that spans more than 1500 years, written by dozens of authors, some who are connected, some who are not. Let’s just consider the New Testament. When we refer to the claims of the New Testament we’re talking about the story of Christianity, the very foundation of Christianity as it deals with the incarnation of Christ, who he was, and what he did. As with the entire Bible, the name New Testament is just a name given to a certain related group of writings that speaks about the story and implications of the advent of Jesus Christ.
Does the claim “You cannot use the Bible to prove the Bible” mean we cannot use the testimony in Matthew as supporting evidence for Mark? Or can it mean that one cannot attempt to piece together Galatians with Acts? From the perspective of a historian, the claim that we cannot use the Bible to prove or evidence the Bible is completely misguided. There are 27 books in the New Testament, all written around the same time and all telling similar stories. Each book can therefore be used to prove or provide evidence for each of the other documents in the New Testament.
If a person says, “You can’t use the Bible to prove the Bible,” he doesn’t realize he is borrowing from the Christian worldview in order to even make such an assertion. He assumes the idea of the basic unity of Scripture or the single-authorship of the Bible. The only way to say the Bible can’t prove the Bible is to presume that Scripture has a single authorial source. Otherwise, there is no reason to link the canon of Scripture together in such a way. For the non-Christian especially, the Bible should be seen as 66 ancient documents, all of which stand or fall on their own. In order to assess them as one document one must assume a single authorship of some sort.
As testimonial sources, the 27 documents called the New Testament are unparalleled in ancient history. The contemporary multiple attestations for the story of Jesus (eyewitness or not) are without equal. Examine the sources we have for other ancient historical events and people and you will find that they have nowhere near the number of documented writings discussing the central claims. In contrast, when it comes to the claims about Christ, we are talking about 27 documents in the New Testament alone. And all of these come within 60 to 70 years after the events. And if you expand the data beyond just Scripture and allow extra-biblical sources to be considered, then we are talking about dozens and dozens more from early church fathers (whose testimonies cannot be ignored simply because they were believers) and from ancient historians such as Tacitus and Josephus. The story of Christ has plenty of independent documentation, all of which proves or provides evidence for the rest. Because of this when we use the Bible to prove the Bible we’re merely acting as historians.
As for the archeological/historical evidence for the accuracy or authenticity of the Bible, there are literally thousands. A much shorter list would be for those biblical accounts that, as yet, have NOT been corroborated. However, here is a representative example of finds:
–Concerning writing and accuracy:
In today’s era in which archaeology is proving to be one of the Bible’s best supporting witnesses, the most dramatic archaeological discoveries are those that completely upset ideas or theories previously thought to be true. Among the discoveries are the Dead Sea Scrolls which have proven that the Old Testament writings are indeed ancient and have maintained nearly perfect accuracy in transmission. The tablets at Ebla are another discovery which have proven that writing existed far prior to Moses’ era, contrary to earlier criticisms.
–Concerning lost kings and civilizations:
The Hitite civilization was once considered fictitious because it was only mentioned in the Bible. That is until 1906 when the German archaeologist Winckler discovered the Hitite’s capital city along with their entire history recorded on cuneiform. Not only had the Bible been validated concerning the Hitites, but the cuneiform tablets gave an early history conforming to that described by the Bible. Hititology eventually became a major in several universities.
The book of Daniel was once thought to be wrong in mentioning two concurrent kings of Babylon, neither of whom had been found anywhere else in history. Then in 1854, J.G. Taylor unearthed writings of the king, Nabonidus, and his son, Belshazzar, the crown prince. Upon this discovery, Daniel’s labeling of Belshazzar as king was still thought to be in error. But this too was clarified by a 1979 discovery of a statue in northern Syria which, in two languages, described Belshazzar’s position. The Assyrian text described him as governor, which was his official title, while the Aramaic described him as king, the role which he had been given over them. This fine distinction in titles had been lost since Daniel’s writings over 2,500 years ago as had also been lost detailed descriptions of the Babylonian Court and empire. If not truly authored by Daniel, or someone of his time, who else would have included the so-called obvious mistake of two concurrent kings? Who else would have known accurate details of the ancient city – both of which had long remained lost until the twentieth century?
–Concerning life and customs:
Tablets of writing from Mari on the Middle Euphrates (c.1700-1600 BC) and Nuzi on the Tigris in northeastern Iraq, discovered in 1925, give corroborating accounts as to the life and customs recorded in the Bible. Abraham’s haggling with Ephron concerning the purchase of the Cave of Machpelah was in accordance with common ancient practice. Apparently Abraham wished to purchase only the cave itself in which to bury his wife Sarah. Yet governed by Hitite practice he had to buy not only the cave but the land and the arbors associated with it. This assumption of feudal obligation described in Genesis 23:1-20 is exactly in accord with the recovered Hitite documents from Boghazkoy in which such details are stressed.
Another testimony for the Bible is provided upon the walls of the great temple of Karnak in Upper Egypt. An Egyptian attack upon Palestine is recounted corresponding to that of 1 Kings 14:25 and 26. It lists the specific cities attacked and even references the Field of Abram: “the first time that a source outside the Bible confirms that patriarch’s connection with a locality in Palestine.”
–Concerning New Testament persons and practices:
The Book of Luke was scoffed at by critics unable to find outside support for persons and events mentioned within it. Though critics presumed it guilty until proven innocent, the book of Luke is continually being affirmed by on-going archaeology. Research shows that not many years prior to Jesus’ birth a regular enrollment of taxpayers by Rome was actually initiated. Such a census took place in Syria and Judea as documented in an ancient inscription called the Titulus Venetus. An Egyptian papyrus from AD 104 confirms the necessity of returning to one’s homeland for this census: “Because of the approaching census it is necessary that all those residing for any cause away from their homes should at once prepare to return to their own governments in order that they may complete the family registration of the enrollment and that the tilled lands may retain those belonging to them.”
Another critical claim was the non-existence of Pontius Pilate, governor of Judea. This claim was silenced in 1961 when an excavation of Caesarea, the Roman capital of Palestine, uncovered an inscription bearing both Pilate’s name and title. Similarly did Gallio, proconsul of Achaea, and Lysanias, tetrarch of Abilene, go from Bible myth to archaeological fact. Luke’s title of Publius as “first man” and his use of “politarchs” as civil authorities were neither believed by critics until discovered in non-biblical texts.
We all exist in an illusory universe. It appears to be three dimensional but for mathematics to work properly, it is in truth two dimensional or flat. This two dimensional reality only becomes three through our subjective perception. What we are in fact looking at is a hologram. Go to this site to study the concept further.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150427101633.htm
The hologram that we see has been created in our minds by GOD. That is why our dreams appear so real as well. GOD wants to unify all of his children detests anything that divides us from on another. Religion cannot be said to unify mankind but rather sets us apart. .
Tom- Your argument is the Bible is true because of the claims the Bible makes, right? Isn’t that circular reasoning?
I would love to know what other archeological historical finds have proven the Bible true.
Seon–
Just as there are multiple sources to support the validity of the Bible–among them are history, archeology, and science. The Bible is completely accurate in all these regards. The point I was making is that looking at the Bible to prove its validity is absolutely NOT circular reasoning.
Tom- they are multiple sources to prove there is a president of the us.
Tom that will take a while do send them to me on twitter if you have it. My handle is seonf
Seon–
I have responded to your last post to me but because it contains web site addresses, it is awaiting approval prior to being posted.
Jack–
Your comment that “Posters who use the Bible as proof of what they say are engaged in a circular argument”, is no more accurate than saying you can’t look inside the White House to prove there is a president of the United States.
Hi Canadian Jack, I am interested in the hologram theory as well. I see you stumbled upon this article like me. I googled religion without god but mostly found Deism articles and sites like this claiming to be not religious.
Seon is asking for evidence, There is none, Posters who use the Bible as proof of what they say are engaged in a circular argument. The Bible was the creation of mortal men. So was Alice in Wonderland. The mere fact that we communicate with both written and unwritten words is good evidence that we care enough to convince once another of a GOD given truth. The act of caring is some evidence that mindless and uncaring evolution cannot account for our selfless feelings. GOD provides evidence of her/his/its existence by whispers in our dreams. GOD loves our souls enough to make us all immortal. GOD cares enough about the Universe to create many, All the universes have been programmed to bang against each other at a precise moment which causes the universes to be created all over again,. Eternal heaven is where we currently reside, Astronomers have determined that reality is a hologram. So are our dreams.
Seon—
You seem to suggest that one must either believe in the God of the Bible or in science; that a “critical” thinker must dismiss the Bible. For something to be scientific it has to be observable, replicatable, and falsifiable. However, scientists must also rely on a measure of faith. They must have faith that what they have observed and replicated is reality. We all live by a measure of faith or we would not ride an elevator or travel by plane. Therefore, science and faith are not exclusive but compatible. The large majority of early scientists were Christians. Galileo, Kepler, Newton, Bacon, Gauss, Faraday, Kelvin, Pasteur, Lister, Mendel, and many more. They were driven by the desire to understand God’s creation. They looked at both science and Christianity critically and believed in both.
As for prophetic evidence and the evidence for the resurrection, time does not allow me to give you all the details here. However, let me give you resources for your own inquiry:
http://christianity.about.com/od/easter/a/7-Proofs-Of-The-Resurrection.htm shows solid reasons we can believe in the resurrection. Lee Strobel’s book “The Case for the Resurrection” is an investigative reporter’s view of the resurrection.
As for prophecy, J. Barton Payne identified some 1239 predictions in the Old Testament involving some 6,641 verses. In the New Testament he found 578 predictions in 1,711 verses. Hundreds of these predictions have come to pass while NONE have ever been proven to be wrong. Many of the prophecies are still to be fulfilled as the end of times draws near and Jesus Christ returns to earth. Many prophecies are of Jesus while others are of historical or future events. John Walvoord’s book “The Prophecy Knowledge Handbook documents every prophecy in the Bible and reveals whether it has already been fulfilled or yet to be fulfilled.
Some prophecies are so specific there can be no denying them. The prophecy of King Cyrus is one example: https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/264-cyrus-the-great-in-biblical-prophecy
There are hundreds of prophecies in the Old Testament of Jesus Christ, made hundreds and thousands of years before his birth. Here is a list of 353 of them: http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html
According to statistics, it has been calculated that the odds of just 8 prophecies of Jesus being fulfilled is 1 x 10 to the 57th power!! Someone calculated that the odds of ALL the prophecies of Jesus coming to fruition in just one person is a number greater than the total number of atoms in the entire universe!! I challenge you Seon to find any person in the entire history of the world who perfectly fits all the prophecies of Jesus.
What evidence proves Jesus rose from the dead and said all the things the gospels prove he said?
Yes true when one accepts the Bible is the word of God it is easier to swallow everything it says. But when someone like me looks at it critically- it would be like you reading the Scientology creation story.
I’d find a few prophecies interesting, but all the prophecies it made coming true as evidence. So what prophecies came true?
To answer your question like most honest scientists when presented with evidence I am wrong I will change my mind. I accept science and not faith (well except for Deism as Richard Dawkins says is watered down theism) but am willing to be convinced I am wrong. It’s one reason I search for these discussions.
Seon—
Why choose Christianity? Good question. Consider this: All the world’s religions are based on the religious writings or sayings of somebody, usually just one person, and the evidence of that one person is totally lacking. They teach and write of things that no one can corroborate or that can easily be disputed or proven wrong. All those world religions teach in one way or another that by one’s own works and/or goodness you can reach some sort of heaven or nirvana or self-realization. Only biblical Christianity is based on historical FACT; that evidence being of Jesus Christ and his miraculous resurrection. (The Bible’s divine source is corroborated by Jesus himself.)
Once a person comes to understand that the Bible could not possibly have been simply the thoughts of man but could only have come from the mind of God, there is simply no further reason to doubt what it says. One can then take what it says starting at creation and proceeding through Revelation as the truth.
Fact: The Bible was written over a 1500+ year time-frame, by at least 40 different people including everyone from shepherds to Kings, in three different languages, and on three different continents; yet it tells one seamless story from beginning to end without contradiction. It has never been shown to be incorrect historically, archeologically, or scientifically. That in itself is absolutely incredible proof of its supernatural source. Then add in the hundreds of prophecies that perfectly and in every detail came to pass, often hundreds of years before they occurred, and it would be a total denial of credibility to consider the Bible as anything other than the revealed Word of God.
Before going into any more detail, let me ask you Seon—How many fulfilled prophecies would you have to see to believe in the Bible’s divine nature? I would also ask before proceeding, are you really searching for the truth with an open mind or have you already concluded that no matter what evidence you’re shown you’re not going to be convinced?
Tom-
Yep and I have been convinced by the arguments that there is some sort of God. The trouble is though with those arguments you can fill the gap with any god or goddess. I am also convinced by personal experience and experience of others there is some sort of afterlife. Like with God which one I can not say I am 100% sure about.
Other religions pretend to know where we came from and why there is such chaos too. Why pick Christianity? Can’t we just admit we live in a chaotic universe?
What is about to happen, like Revelation? A giant gong will suddenly be heard and all those horsemen will literally come down? What convinced you that will happen?
And what evidence or prophecies convinced you the Bible was literally true?
seon…
1. isaiah 7.14 the virgin birth
2. micah 5.2…bethlehem being the birthplace
3. isaiah 53…messiahs sacrificial death
4. deuteronomy 18…a prophet like moses
5. psalm 16.10 to 11…his resurrection
6. génesis 48.10…from the tribe of judah
7. psalm 22…death by crucifixión
8. Daniel 9.25 to 27…the time of jesus death
9. zachariah 10 to 12…the return of christ
Seon—
Thanks for your response.
You say you “believe in one God and I believe he or she used science and natural means to create the universe . . .” The natural question is, why do you believe these things? Would you not say that belief in something is a result of looking at the evidence for that thing and deciding it is accurate and true? If so, what is your evidence for what you believe?
I have firm reason to believe the Bible is the Word of God based on the evidence within itself that proves it to be a supernaturally given account of God, creation, and certain historical events which describe where we came from, why there is such chaos in the world, why Jesus Christ came to earth, and what is still to happen. We can discuss these at some length, one or two at a time if you like.
Hi Chris,
What prophicies? Be grateful we are living in countries where we have the freedom to discuss these things.
seon…the coming of the messiah was promised right from the garden after sin had been made. génesis 3.15 and runs all the way to malachi 3.1 and following. more tan 300 specific messianic prophesies all fulfilled by one person named jesus of nazareth. jesus has already come once. he will come again. i hope you are ready to see him face to face
Hi Tom, I just believe in one God and I believe he or she used science and natural means to create the universe (so they set things in motion) and don’t believe in miracles or sin. I guess if I had to define my beliefs it would be a deist?
Would Oliver have remembered a case he tried 60 years ago? Maybe some details like who it was and a rough idea of what was said.
Well, I don’t believe in the holy spirit but I suppose if you did that would explain how John remembered everything so clearly. I also don’t believe in Satan or that he could talk “Through a snake” and it’s just scientifically impossible that people lived for 900 years.
I do enjoy the theological discussion.