I think when we try to follow policies and guidelines for our response to people’s mistakes we often end up missing the mark. Instead these circumstances should bring us to our knees to seek out the Holy Spirit’s direction. We can have confidence that He will indeed direct us and His direction will always be the right one. It may not be the easy way or have the results that we want but we can be certain that it will be right and help us to walk more closely with our Lord.

I am glad you referred to 2Cor into the conversation. God definitely has a process [a set of instructions] that he has laid for us to follow. Most conversations relating to sin and abuse today are immediately followed with discussion of forgiveness; yet in Corinthians the forgiveness proposal comes after his people obey and comes with love training. As I read books, articles, blogs and comments and have conversations, I find that there are many who like to circumnavigate or shortcut Gods process and teach or espouse that modified method that ignores Gods process [or atleast implies that it is being ignored] and puts the emphasis on the down trodden to be forgiving. In fact it is that erroneous propaganda that has prompted me to interact on websites such as this when I see great truths being discussed and bantered around.

I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentence; this recognition that God has us as followers, not leaders, may prompt us more often to look to Gods guidance for the process we are to follow. Most of us are quite good at determining what will be done, our major problems are with shrinking it down to almost meaningless or waiting upon the lord for when it shall occur.

with Christ as my counselor,
g

You won’t find forgiveness in this letter to the Christians in Corinth but in 2Corinthians 2 you will find, “The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient for him. Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him. The reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have forgiven– if there was anything to forgive– I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.” (vs. 6-11) Here Paul is commending the way that the Corinthians had taken his direction and dealt severely with the one who had been sleeping with his father’s wife but adding that part of the reconciliation process is forgiveness. It is Satan who wants us to not forgive because our unforgiveness leads us to harbour bitterness, anger, self-righteousness and pride. But when we forgive we reflect the character of our Lord, “The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.” (Exodus 34:6-7) God does not neglect forgiveness in His justice, nor does He neglect justice in His forgiveness and love. We need to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit so that we too can hold those two aspects in balance.

That is exactly the question; do we even consider that these types of verses are talking about forgiveness if we do not read that word in the text? Are we to forgive the ones who claim to be Christians yet indulge …? I read that we are commanded to judge those people and remove them and also not to associate or eat with these people. Where in these verses does is there talk about forgiving them? There is none; however, we do read that God will judge those on the outside, implying that we can give our pain and heartache to God to deal with and rely on Him and His judgment.

I hope that this explains where I see forgiveness in these scriptures. I look forward to your reply.

g

“9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin.
10 But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or who are greedy or are swindlers or idol worshipers. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that.
11 What I meant was that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a Christian yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or a drunkard, or a swindler. Don’t even eat with such people.
12 It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your job to judge those inside the church who are sinning in these ways.
13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.” (1Corithians 5:9-13)

So how do you see these verses talking about forgiveness?

I think a summary is in order here. There a few obvious differences that are intermingled here on this page: Proclaimed Christian or Non-Christian; Repentant or un-repentant; Is forgiveness an expectation or a gift; Be like Jesus, emulate Paul, follow the Holy Spirit, or expect one of those from others. The opposing viewpoints expressed in this comment thread are all based on a few assumptions by the writers; the challenge to us [as comment writers] is to figure out what those few assumption differences are so we can provide good feedback.

For everyone here, I leave you today with a thought to grapple with. Please look at 1 Corinthians 5 and focus on Verse 11; it could easily be about the context of forgiveness or the consequences of sin.

Jesus’ message was to the Jews who were living a ‘good moral life’ in their own strength but had lost their relationship of dependence on God. Paul’s message was more often to Gentiles who felt so unworthy of God’s love because they had grown up in worshipping false gods and immorality. The message of Jesus was “No matter how good you look on the outside there is no way that you can hide the evil that lurks in your heart. Come to me and be set free.” Paul’s message was, “God is not asking you to measure up to a standard in order to be made right with Him. Come to Jesus and be washed clean.” The message is the same but because it is directed to different people with different issues the emphasis of the message is different.

I must agree with what “D” is expressing here. We to have become dismayed with the excuses made for those in our church that refuse to obey simple commands layed out by our Savior such as forgiveness and many others. The majority of the church is following Pauline scripture instead of those of Yeshua. Those in the church have run rough shod over the original intent of the Son in the name of profit and free living under the Pauline principle of “Grace”, But Yeshua said “freely you have recieved, freely give” and also “If you love me you will obey my command”. No where do I read anything from Yeshua about nobody’s perfect! He says “be ye perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect”
I know it was not your intent but you (brenda)fall perfectly inline with what I think “D” was trying to point out about todays christians.

D, you have obviously had painful experiences in the area of forgiveness, or lack thereof on the part of Christians. You seem to have a great deal of bitterness toward Christians and our failures in this particular area. I would point to one area of this article in particular that struck me:

“Forgiveness will challenge you to grow – to love more deeply and to learn more about life and interacting with people. But, more importantly, forgiveness will set you free!”

As Christians, we are not perfect, but growing toward serving Christ Jesus daily with the goal of allowing Him to transform us more and more into His image and likeness. Only Jesus forgave and forgives perfectly. I understand that it can be extremely disappointing when forgiveness is withheld, and especially so when it is not given on the part of Christ-followers. However, to paint all Christians with the brush of hypocrisy seems to me a harsh judgment. It is my prayer that your future experiences are much more healing and positive in Christ Jesus.