You are right, of course, that it would be better not to do the crime in the first place, but the wonderful gift that God offers to all who put their trust in the forgiveness that comes through the sacrifice of Jesus is a heart and life washed clean from all the wrongs we have done. God made Jesus, the one who lived without any wrong doing ever, to become sin so that we who are full of sin can become the righteousness of God, pure in ever way (2Corithians 5:21)

I have seen moral and criminal atheists as well as men of the cloth. If a pastor cheats on his wife and lies about finances, is he more righteous because he calls God at the end of the day for forgiveness?

I think not.

“not according to ATHEISIM – the basic premises”

The basic premise of atheism is that there are no deities. It does not follow that atheists are free to ignore ethics; as a matter of fact, atheists have made great leaps in the field, in their efforts to establish ethics that do not rely on appeals to the supernatural. I’ve read a lot of atheist thinkers, and all of them use pedophilia as an example of harm, and therefore wrong.

“They are there – love your neighbor as your self cover all of the above – animal sex is specifically forbidden”

All right, I believe you about animals, but how does “love your neighbour” specifically prohibit pedophilia? It looks to me like it’s our own culture that imposes that meaning on it.

“It harms them – terrible health problems – they beat each other – much is not reported but enough is”

My LGBT friends are just as healthy as my other friends, and a few of them have some of the best, most loving relationships I’ve ever seen. I’m certain that not all relationships are like that, but when you correct for socioeconomic status and systemic oppression, I have a feeling that the figures will be right in line with straight relationships.

“No – Bible says ‘Nature itself teaches these are wrong’ and in all civilize society homosexuality has been viewed as NOT NORMAL even when it was accepted. That is true even TODAY!”

Well, the Bible is wrong about nature. Many dozens of animal species engage in homosexual behaviour. And even if nature did somehow punish homosexuality, nature also punishes paraplegia, while it rewards rape. Yet we wouldn’t be prepared to call paraplegia wrong and rape right.

As for whether LGBT people are regarded as normal, that’s not a good argument either. Petroleum use is maladaptive, and yet we consider it to be perfectly normal. Acts of heroism are not normal, and yet no one would call them wrong.

“Homosexuals are often very violent among themselves and against others! That is a proven – and coverted up – fact”

Really? You’re telling me that a dozen of my good friends, and four of my best friends, are somehow covering up secret lives of crime and brutality? Seeing as I spend a lot more time with them than you do, I’m going to need to see more before I believe this “fact.”

“We follow the New Testament only – no Sabbath there”

Both books have been handed down together for a couple of millennia, and I know Christians today who place quite a high value on Old Testament ideas. Why are you right, and all the rest of them wrong?

(I’d actually be curious to know what the Christian basis is for calling these behaviours unethical. I don’t remember any prohibitions against them in the Bible.)

Anyway, homosexuality is between consenting adults, and harms no one. The only basis for prohibitions against it is religious law. And, well, occasionally someone will bring up the fact that gay people could face bullying, bashing, and general community disapproval, all of which are most certainly harm…but using that to restrict their rights would be like arguing that women shouldn’t have the right to go out in public, because someone might rape them.

And the Irish texts about the sabbath predate the English Puritans by at least six hundred years. But I’m not sure how that’s relevant. What makes ancient Irish Christianity, or for that matter Puritanism, inferior to the Christianity that you espouse today?