Should Wives Really Submit?
I have a difficult time with the word submission. Can you explain just how submissive a wife should be towards a husband without losing her identity and respect? I am not sure where the boundaries are even. It seems like every time I open my mouth I get into trouble because he feels am dividing the family in some way and making him have no authority.
Today the kids were eating a hamburger in the car, and they were looking for a drink. My husband says to the kids, “Grab your bottle of water” (they keep a bottle in the car at all times). Well, I remembered I had a can of soda in my purse, so I gave it to them, and he says I undermined his authority! I didnt think it was a big deal, but he did.
Our lines of communication keep getting crossed and its a problem and is causing major conflict. How do you communicate with your spouse? Plus this submission thing. Can you explain just briefly (yeah, right) a little on these matters? I need help!
Advice: It sounds like you and your husband need to go back to the basics of improving your communication and coming to terms with how you discipline and work together as a team with the children.
The passages on submission and headship in the Bible (Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3) emphasize the importance of love, consideration and respect between spouses. In this context, it is always important to note that power and control should not characterize the marriage relationship. Colossians 3:18-19 reads, “Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.” Ephesians 5:22-29 (excerpts) says, “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church…(25), Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her… husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies…” (I encourage you to read the whole passage).
Pastor Ray Pritchard’s sermon, “Men and Women in Biblical Perspective” deals with this issue quite well. This sermon would be good for both of you to read, think about and discuss.
Pastor Ray writes: “Headship” means that God has called the man to lead his home—and will therefore hold him personally responsible for what goes on in his home. The emphasis is on responsibility and accountability, not on authority and power.”
There are times when a wife cannot submit when it means relinquishing God’s standards or means giving up her safety in the case of domestic violence. Sarah told Abraham to get rid of Hagar (his other wife/concubine) and God backed her up saying to Abraham “do what she told you.” Yes, there are instances where wives stood up for what is right and did not submit. Yet, in 1 Peter 3 it says that Sarah obeyed Abraham in everything.
In your situation, you and your husband need to come to mutually agreeable terms about how to raise and discipline your children together.
Submission is a word which can be described/defined as “willing conciliation.” That means that the wife should be “willing,” not coerced. Wives are to respect their husbands. Husbands are to be considerate of their wives. Both partners should be willing to “put the other’s interests above his/her own” as Philippians 2 describes. The woman should be willing to submit to her husband not be unwilling or forced. The man should be a loving, servant leader – accountable and responsible to God and his family. A loving leader leads –doesn’t manipulate or pressure. A submitter doesn’t “take over.”
Aquila and Priscilla are wonderful role-model of how a couple can work together harmoniously as a team. In Acts they taught Apollos and led him to Christ – offering hospitality to believers and were co-workers with Paul.
Marriage should be mutual servanthood and treated as a ministry. Larry Crabb talks about this principle in his book on marriage.
I encourage you to ask your husband to go to counseling with you or to talk with your Pastor. It sounds like there are power and control issues between you. These issues are very destructive.
Read a good marriage book together or attend a marriage conference such as: Christian Prep or a Family Life seminar/conference.
These books will help you understand each other and learn some better communication skills:
- A Lasting Promise: A Christian Guide to Fighting for Your Marriage, by Scott Stanley, Howard Markman, Susan Blumberg, Dean Edell.
- The Five Love Languages: How to Express Heartfelt Commitment to Your Mate, by Gary Chapman
- His Needs, Her Needs, by Willard F. Harley.
I hope you find this helpful. It’s important that your husband and you work together about parenting issues. Talk over some of these issues and come to a mutually agreeable decision. If your husband is always making the decisions without your input and considering your opinion –then, you are headed for trouble. In Colossians 3 Paul tells the husband to be considerate of and respect his wife.
May you work this out in a loving way. God bless you!
Hi Judy,
Starting with your last Q: Women were considered physically weaker, and needed a man’s protection, more so in that culture than today. Isn’t it beautiful and appreciated when a man serves a woman by opening a door for her or protects her in some way? Spouses need to do things for one another to remind them both that they are still in love. That leads me to mention a book that has helped my wife & me a great deal: “The 5 Love Languages” in which Gary Chapman says we have different ways of expressing love, and often hurt one-another by not speaking the same language. We may feel dominated or ignored, when it actually is a lack of understanding. Gary, a Christian, is director of Marriage & Family Life Consultants, Inc. I recommend you look for this book (ISBN: 1-881273-15-6).
Judy, where in the Bible does it say that wives need to treat their husbands like gods? The emperor asked that from his subjects, but the husband?
I feel that Darren Hewer is on the right track in explaining your questions with respect to cultural differences. Thanks, Darren, that was very well said.
Finally: Love is not so much a feeling, as it is a decision to do so. “God so loved…..”
I saw your comment and just had to take a minute to comment Judy. You said, ‘But since love is a feeling, how can somebody be told that they must love someone? You can instruct someone to submit, to pray, or to pay, but how can you instruct someone to love someone?’ I think you have hit the nail on the head as it were. Love isn’t just a feeling, it is an action, a choice. I choose to love my husband even when I don’t necessarily agree with him on everything(after all if we agreed on everything one of us wouldn’t be necessary right? :-) ) We are commanded to love one another, to love our neighbor as ourselves, husbands are told to love their wives as Christ loved the church. Those are all action verbs….not nouns.
Knowing that love is a choice and an action puts things into perspective for me when relationships get challenging. Yes my husband and I loved one another when we got married, but our 35 plus years haven’t been without challenges. But throughout that because we had made a commitment before God and man, we chose to love one another through the tough times. Does that make sense?
Hi guys. Another confusing thing I thought of. In the bible, it instructs husbands to love their wives. I would think that the reason he married her was because he loves her. But since love is a feeling, how can somebody be told that they must love someone? You can instruct someone to submit, to pray, or to pay, but how can you instruct someone to love someone? Someone may love someone when they get married, but what if the loved person changes(maybe becomes mean), and the husband can no longer feel love for his wife? If anyone has any comments about this, I would appreciate it. Thanks
Thank you, Darren. I appresciate you desribing your beliefs. You sound like a nice person. I apologize for the remark about pets. It would really not be as much of an insult if you knew how much I loved my pets (2 cats by the way). I was just trying to make a point about how I am submissive to my pets. Thanks again for taking the time to answer some of my questions. I wish you all the best. Judy.
P.S. Any other opinions or answers to any of my questions would be appreciated. and Derren if you think of anything else to say, please do so.
Hi Judy, you have so many questions it would likely take hours to answer them and I don’t really have time for that, I apologize but you’re likely going to have to do some more of your own research to find all the answers you seek. Many of your questions begin “Do you think…” My personal opinion matters little; what matters is what the most accurate interpretation of God’s Word is.
I should make one qualification before I continue, I am not married as you assume, so I am in a sense commenting from an “outsider perspective” as it were. Hopefully that won’t lead people to summarily dismiss my comments! :) Also, I was rather offended by your comparison of a Christian wife to a pet dog. This IMHO is rather derogatory to Christian wives and I hope you won’t make such comparisons again. I hope that isn’t how you actually view loving, happy, God-honoring Christian relationships.
You ask “It sounds to me like you do give your wife some minor decision making abilities, but if you both cannot come to an agreement, she is to yield to you. Am I correct in that?” Maybe part of the disconnect is that you equate “submission” with “the wife never gets to make any decisions for herself and the husband tells her what to do all the time.” This is not how I understand the biblical concept at all, as I tried to explain in my original comment. As the apostle Paul explains, the husband and wife are to submit to each other as appropriate. The husband’s responsibility is to know God’s word and apply it honestly, humbly and consistently to the important decisions a married couple faces. This doesn’t mean the husband needs to control the wife’s day-to-day decisions, in fact he should not. Most decisions each make are mundane and it doesn’t matter. It’s only in situations that the husband and wife are at an impasse, where their discussions on an issue seem unresolvable, that it would become the husband’s responsibility to make a choice that is best for his wife. Yes, not what is best for himself, but what is best for her. Elsewhere in his letters Paul tells his readers “Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.” (Philippians 2:3) Applying this principle the husband should always seek the good of his wife first. In all things it’s implied that God’s rule comes first; so neither should be willing to give in to the other when the other person is disobeying God’s Word.
You say that you “always took what I read at face value,” which may be part of the problem; sometimes understanding what a person wrote in an entirely different culture nearly 2,000 years ago requires going beyond the face value meaning to uncover a more accurate interpretation. (Not all scripture is so difficult to understand, but some just is.) The most important thing is being as accurate as possible, not as “literal” as possible.
You ask, “When you say if the wife thinks that what you are deciding is wrong, than she should not yield to your will. That kind of goes against the term. Does she actually have a choice not to submit?” The principle here at play isn’t that a person doesn’t need to submit if they don’t agree. It is that God’s opinion dwarfs anyone else’s. So if it is apparent that someone’s opinion differs from God’s, they should not be submitted to, regardless of who they are.
A lot of the specific questions re man/woman husband/wife interaction are too lengthy to try to get into here. If you are truly interested in the topic a full-length book written and edited by top academic scholars is Discovering Biblical Equality: Complementarity Without Hierarchy edited by Ronald W. Pierce, Rebecca Merrill Groothuis and Gordon D. Fee, available there from Amazon or from your favorite local or online bookstore. Hope this helps, blessings to you on your continued search!
Gosh, as I ask questions, more come to mind. Do you agree with the theory that a women is a “weaker vesseL” and if so, do you mean spiritually, physically, mentally, or what? Is that why you feel she needs a “head” to make her decisions?
Hi Darren. Thanks so much for your views. When you say that a wife and husband are equal, does that mean in secular society? As the biblical equality, is it in the sense of “one being more equal than” another? When I take a job, it normally takes into consideration my abilites, and what I am willing to take on. Is the husband’s headship based on abilities? Do you think that God gave husbands certain abilities to be able to make better decisions for his wife? Do you think that submission leads to passive-aggressive behaviour in the submissive wife? Am I using the wrong definition of submission, and if I am, why do you think the word is used? I always took what I read at face value, and then decided if I agreed or not. If I disagreed, then I would eliminate that thought or idea from my mind. Is that what you do? Or is your motto ‘some things are not what they seem”. Again, thanks for your input. I appreciate any more that you have to share on the matter.
Darren, one more question-When you say if the wife thinks that what you are deciding is wrong, than she should not yield to your will. That kind of goes against the term. Does she actually have a choice not to submit? What’s the purpose of the words, if it actually mean “submit if you agree” Just asking.
Hi Darren, thank you so much for your comments. It sounds to me like you do give your wife some minor decision making abilities, but if you both cannot come to an agreement, she is to yield to you. Am I correct in that? When you state that you are both equal, are you saying that is the case in because of secular laws? Since love is an emotion and you can’t really control it, what if a christian man stopped loving his wife? You can order someone to submit, or to kneel, or to pray, or to pay, but how can you order someone to have feelings for another. On to more of the submission issue, is the christian equality issue the case of “one person being more equal than another”. It would seem that way to me if one person has final say in everything, and one yields to that decision. In what kind of things do you sumbit to your wife? I have pets, and I honestly do subit to them, is that the way it is? They will wake me up when they want their food, and I get up and get them their food. Is the way you submit to her by feeding, clothing, and housing her? Thanks again for replying, I would love to chat with you more. Judy
Judy, it seems many of questions arise from an anachronistic reading of the word “submit” in Paul’s writings. One thing to keep in mind is that in the apostle Paul’s culture (ie, that of the first century Mediterranean), it was the husband’s responsibility to ensure the honor of those in his household, including his wife. In such a culture, it would have been considered deeply dishonoring for the wife to refuse to submit to the husband; it would be a sign of deep disrespect. The specific application of honor/shame culture here at that time was the wife submitting; the greater principle that could be applied today is “respect each other and do not cause shame to your partner according to your culture’s values.” Paul even implies this at the end of the passage where his summary statement says “each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.” (Ephesians 5:33) Studying this sort of honor/shame culture (ex, in the anthropological writings of Bruce J Malina, or Jerome H. Neyrey) may help explain why Paul instructed his readers as he did.
The apostle Paul prefaces his discussion of the wife’s and husband’s responsibilities to each other by saying “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” (Ephesians 5:21) So clearly there are situations where each must submit to the other. Wives are asked to submit to husbands, but with two caveats: One, the implied caveat being that the two people have tried but cannot come to an amicable agreement, and two, only to submit as long as husband is obeying God’s Word. The husband’s job is to educate himself in God’s Word and do what it says. As long as he is doing so, the wife should submit. (Why not, if he is merely doing/teaching what the Word says?) But if he is not doing what is right, then the wife should not submit.
IMHO, married Christian men and women are equal partners in their relationship. That doesn’t mean all of their roles or responsibilities are exactly the same. We are all equal under the laws of our country, but that doesn’t mean we all have the same responsibilities or perform the same jobs/duties.
Oh, Alfred, this one is for you. You state that you are the head of your wife, and yet you are equal. How are you able to achieve that? I would really appreciate your take on that. Thanks, Judy. No more questions, I promise. As i do more research, and get more opinions, more questions come up. If you decide to answer me any questions, I would appreciate it. It doesn’t have to be all or none. Judy
Sorry, i came across more questions, and I’m personally exhausted (wnet to 2 picnics today) but I know I must get my research done. To wives-Do you feel that your husband makes the best decisions for you? Does he think of you when he makes your decisions? And husbands-Do you always think of your wife’s needs when making her decisions or decisions for both of you? Do I even have this type of lifestyle correct? Husbands-Do you give your wife control over little things ie do you allow her to make small decisions on her own, or do you give her some decision making ability? Or do you make all the choices? (like the difference between a small child and a teen-ager that I mentikoned before). And wives-Do you ever think you would make a better choice on something? Or does he always make the best decisions for you? Since in the secular world, you have rights, do you ever take advantage of these rights? Thanks again. That’s all. If you can give me your opinions on these things, I would appreciate it immensley.
Just one more question. The bible says that wives should treat their husbands like god. What about the commandment about not worshipping false gods. Do you thinks that’s kind of a contradiction? Also, to the women-do you feel inferior to yuour husband since he has complete power over you. I cannot see how you can, but I would like your opinions. Also, husbands-I know you feel superior to your wife (how could you not), but how does that make you feel? Superiority in everything, or just on religious issues? Like Diana said, if a husband is the boss (or superiour) then the wife is a subordinate, no? Please let me know how that feels (inferiority vs. superiority vs equality. Also, do the wives think god will send them to hell if they do not give their free will over to their husband? Thanks so much, you don’t know what your input means to me.
Sorry to bother you all again, but just a couple more questions. Is the submission like a master to a slave, or would you say it is more like a parent to a child? I know a slave cannot love a master, but a child most always love their parents. I know these three relationships are covered under the submission guides. Also, if it is more like a parent/child relationship-is it a little child (where you have few rights and no freedom) or perhaps like a teen-ager, (where you are allowed some privledges and a little freedom) but must still abide by the parents rules and do what they say? Thanks for the help in understanding. Also, to the women-is it nice not to have to make any, or few, of your own choices? I can actually see the benefits of that. You would never have to take the blame, or feel guilty, for making a wrong decision. And husbands, how does it feel to be so responsible for another adult? to not only know that decisions you make can be damaging (or good)I used to think for someone who you have complete control over? I used to think of christian men as “slave-mongers” since they have complete control over another person (I mean she gave you her free will-I guess that would be a compliment). I really appreciate you guys giving me the scoopon the head/submissive relationship. I am doing a paper on “Christianity-Good or Bad for women, and I’m so far on the bad side that I don’t think I can give a balanced opinion without your feedback. And please don’t worry, I won’t use any names-even your blog names. Thanks again.
I cannot understand the concept of a wife being submissive to her husband. I think if you are going to yield to the will of another, you give up your free will, and even your freedom. Do submissive wives celebrate Independence Day? Since it is really a celebration of freedom, and you have basically given your freedom up, I just wondered if you celebrated “freedom holidays”. Also, I would like to hear from women, and what it’s like to never have to make your own choices (i would guess the wedding was the last choice you made). And men, what’s it like to have someone do evertything ypou say, and to basically have another human being give you her free will. I have given up christianity because of the hateful veses about women (as slaves and unclean), but I am working on a career in psychology, and I know how I must have some understanding -submissive of the husband-head, wife-submissive lifestyle. All the people that I know in my personal life have equal marriages, and I am not familiar with anyone with your views. Thanks all. judy.
Dear Sue,
I am a married Christian woman and I have found your claims to be not true. Can you tell me how Christianity kill’s women’s freedom. My marriage is of equality and love. It sounds like you were married to a man that had issues and hid behind religion as his weapon to control you. Not all men of God treat their wives this way. In fact, a true man of God treats his wife like a precious daughter of the King.
Sincerely,
Leah
Oh, how blessed is the woman who is married to a Christian man! He loves her as Christ loves the church!
My wife & I are equal partners, and still in love, though we’ve had our ups and downs. We are now in our 49th year of marriage, and she can look forward to an even better relationship (if I can follow through on implementing the idea expressed in this sermon):
Study By: Hampton Keathley IV Introduction
Several years ago, the Saturday Evening Post published an article entitled “The Seven Ages of the Married Cold.” It revealed the reaction of a husband to his wife’s colds during their first seven years of marriage. It went something like this:
The first year: “Sugar dumpling, I’m really worried about my baby girl. You’ve got a bad sniffle, and there’s no telling about these things with all this strep throat going around. I’m putting you in the hospital this afternoon for a general checkup and a good rest. I know the food’s lousy, but I’ll be bringing your meals in from Rosini’s. I’ve already got it all arranged with the floor superintendent.”
The second year: “Listen, darling, I don’t like the sound of that cough. I called Doc Miller and asked him to rush over here. Now you go to bed like a good girl, please? Just for Papa.”
The third year: “Maybe you’d better lie down, honey: nothing like a little rest when you feel lousy. I’ll bring you something to eat. Have you got any canned soup?”
The fourth year: “Now look, dear, be sensible. After you’ve fed the kids, washed the dishes and finished the floor, you’d better lie down.”
The fifth year: “Why don’t you take a couple of aspirin?”
The sixth year: “I wish you’d just gargle or something, instead of sitting around all evening barking like a seal!”
The seventh year: “For Pete’s sake, stop sneezing! Are you trying to give me pneumonia?”
The decline of marriage as seen through the common cold. A funny look at a not-so-funny reality.
When I first heard that story, I laughed but at the same time it struck fear in me. We have this image of love that lasts a lifetime. But, I’ve been married eight years, and while I certainly haven’t accused Lori of barking like a seal, I have seen some changes in our marriage and not all of them for the better.
Are you still treating the woman you married the same way you did when you were dating or when you were first married? I hope so, but in case you aren’t, I want to share with you what I have discovered recently about love and marriage.
This is a hard lesson to share because it is so personal and it reveals my weaknesses. It shows where I fail. But I share it because I know others may be going through the same things. If you are, you are looking for answers. I think I’ve discovered one answer. So let’s look at it.
The answer comes in a rather cryptic picture of marriage—one that has puzzled many people and sent some down the wrong path, but it is a great model for building and growing a marriage. We will see that there is an exhortation, an example and an expectation for us to follow. Let’s take a look at Ephesians 5:25 to discover the model for genuine love that lasts a lifetime.
Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her; 26 that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she should be holy and blameless.
Love Your Wife Sacrificially So She Blooms as God Planned
Love your wife (25a)
Paul begins with the statement, “Husbands, love your wives.” It sounds like such a simple statement, but what does he mean? What does it mean to love?
I was asked this question the other day with reference to my wife, and my answer was that I wanted her to be happy. Imagine my surprise when a few days later I read the following quote from C. S. Lewis: “… by Love … most of us mean kindness—the desire to see others than the self happy; not happy in this way or in that, but just happy.” He goes on to say that God is not like that. “God does not govern the universe on such lines. And since God is Love, I conclude that my conception of love needs correction.” (The Problem of Pain, p. 40.)
My concept of love was wrong. I thought that loving your wife meant sacrificing yourself and your desires to make her happy. It’s true that true love involves kindness and sacrifice, but it doesn’t stop there.
Then how do we determine what love is? Let’s read on and see what Paul says. He has given us the exhortation to love, and now he gives us the example of love.
Paul says, “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her.” From this example of Christ, we can draw our second point.
Love your wife sacrificially (25b)
When we think of Christ’s sacrifice for the church we immediately think about the cross. He died for us. If that is our example, how do we apply that? I doubt if any of us will ever be called to literally die for our wives, so how do we sacrifice?
I think the key is understanding what it means to sacrifice. First we see what sacrifice is not.
Sacrifice is not just acts of kindness
Too often we read verse 25 and immediately jump on the sacrificial part and come up with a list of things we can do for our wives. In fact, I went to a Family Life Conference this last year and that is exactly what they did. The speaker asked the audience for examples of sacrificial acts of kindness that we could do for our wives. One guy yelled out, “Do the ironing!” Another yelled, “Do the dishes!” Then some wise guy said, “Change the oil!” Anyway, the list can go on and on—wash the dishes, clean the bathroom, iron, give up Monday night football, etc. Most of us are challenged by such lists because there is usually something on the list that has been forgotten. People like lists. They like steps and procedures. Why? Because they feel like they are in control. If you do those things then you have fulfilled your obligation and your conscience is pacified. But is that what it means to give sacrificial love?
What happens if we follow these steps? The husband gives up golf or hunting or Monday night football. He does all the chores around the house. He says, “I’ve got an attitude of sacrifice.” But his attitude might be self-centered. Maybe it is nothing more than working up Brownie points. He expects to be paid back. If he doesn’t get paid back, he stops trying.
Maybe the question to ask is, “What is the motivation?” To put it in the terms Larry Crabb used in his book called The Marriage Builder—is the motivation manipulation or ministry? If it is manipulation, then the husband is doing it because he expects his wife will be happier and treat him better. Most people have the idea that marriage is a 50/50 relationship. That is manipulation. If he is doing it out of the idea of ministering to her then he isn’t doing it for his own benefit. He is doing it for hers.
I read The Marriage Builder before we were married, so I knew this stuff going in to the relationship. I used to struggle with these ideas and what my motivation was. I was always very helpful around the house. I don’t leave my clothes on the floor, don’t watch football, I do wash dishes, and iron regularly, etc. But things did not remain the same as when we were dating or first married. Lori did not respond to me the same way she used to. That’s not meant to be a criticism of Lori because as I’ll explain later, there was nothing to respond to. Anyway, I continually told myself that I was just supposed to minister to her and not manipulate her. So I sometimes felt like a martyr.
Does this mean that Larry Crabb is wrong? No. I just misunderstood what it meant to minister to your wife. I only had a vague and negative idea that ministering was performing acts of kindness and not expecting any results. Christ will fill up your void, etc. Do you know what my idea of ministering was lacking? My ministry lacked direction. I had no goal. But I think I’ve finally discovered what it means to minister to your wife, and it comes in the next two verses.
Sacrifice is risking emotional pain
You may not believe it but sacrifice really involves risking yourself.
When you look at Christ’s sacrifice you understand that His death was not just an act of kindness. It was the pain of rejection when He entered our world to call us to Himself. Before we can begin to understand this concept we must recognize the motivation. We can never comprehend why God did what He did, but I think we can get a glimpse of the motivation which will help us as husbands see what our goal is supposed to be.
What is our purpose as husbands? What do we expect to happen? What is the expectation of Love?
Love your wife sacrificially so she blooms as God planned (26-27)
The purpose of love is the perfecting of the one loved.
The next two verses have several clauses in them that show the purpose of Christ’s sacrifice and love. I think having the same goal as Christ is the key to loving. So what is His goal?
Christ’s first goal is that He might sanctify her
To sanctify means to set apart. When you marry someone you set them apart from the world. They are set apart for special protection, special care, for special attention, for a special purpose.
When you get married, that is what you have done. You have taken her out of the world and set her apart because you want to devote special attention to her.
So the goal of love is not just kindness motivated by a desire to make your wife happy. The goal is to build her up to bring about God’s purpose in her.
How do we know what God’s purpose for her is? 1 Peter 3:7 says “Live with your wives according to knowledge…”
In other words know her. Be involved. Do things together, talk about significant things. Know what she needs and help her achieve and meet her needs.
This is for him to read and to follow, and for her to look forward to!
Please ladies-leave the church. It wants you to become a nobody, a mindless child your whole married life. Please leave-christianity kills women’s freedom. The only kind of marriage to have is a non-christian one-one of equality and love, not domination and submission.
Thank you, Thomas.
There is a simple solution. This does not mean men rule over your husbands. It simply means treat each with respect. Man and women were given quite different tasks. This doesnt make the women lower and the man higher it is just the man represents the family (him and the wife) Different tasks doesnt make one any lower. Its like a superman and there sidekick both are needed for it to be a success.
Thank you Brooke for your responce. What you say shows personal maturity. May the love of God help us to be more loving and forgiving toward our spouces. Blessings from God to your marriage and ours.
I searched online tonight about this topic b/c my fiance just said to me as we were discussing a topic and disagreeing on it, “As the spiritual leader, you don’t have to agree with me, but I expect you to respect my decision.” I do accept him as our spiritual leader and I am grateful for his leadership. However, I want to point out that there is a difference between, “Wives submit to your husbands” and “Husbands, dominate your wives.” THAT is not what the Bible says. I didn’t respond to him at that point. I just went outside to get some air. In this case, I felt that he lorded his authority over me (forgive the pun).
I searched online tonight about this topic b/c my fiance just said to me as we were discussing a topic and disagreeing on it, “As the spiritual leader, you don’t have to agree with me, but I expect you to respect my decision.” I do accept him as our spiritual leader and I am grateful for his leadership. However, I want to point out that there is a difference between, “Wives submit to your husbands” and “Husbands, dominate your wives.” THAT is not what the Bible says. I didn’t respond to him at that point. I just went outside to get some air. In this case, I felt that he lorded his authority over me (forgive the pun).
Thank you, Tim, for your words of understanding. I strongly endorse what you’ve said. I know of both men as well as women who push people away or run because of the hurt that took place years ago. Also, I know of a person who was forced to go to church, and has hated it ever since. To such a person I say “Stop looking at people as your role model for they have all failed; look to Jesus!” But it is not that easy. We need to pray for healing and for ways to support the hurt individual.
OK, back to our topic: I cannot agree with everyone, as we each have our unique background and our own opinions. Yes, marriage is a partnership. It works out, however, even in joint leadership, that one or the other does a little more leading than the other. The word “slave”, I feel, is far too extreme (though some may actually feel that it applies). So, I stay by what I’ve said, that the Bible encourages the man to take the awesome responsibility of being the leader. Also, he needs to love his wife, not step on her. He is to cherish and to love her as he loves his own body.
Jesus, in accomplishing what He came to earth for, was submissive to the Father. Surely, Sara, you do not consider Him inferior or a weakling?
Tim, you say that in my conclusion I state: “… that the wife gives her husband the position of leadership – not God.” I say that it is jointly so, in that God asks it to be that way, and she agrees to support her husband in this role. It makes me sad to know that in some couples there is a vying for dominance. They are together to love and co-operate for the mutual benefit of both, for they are now ONE. They have become a family unit where they can work together, and be blessed by God.
Thanks for your encouragement, Adrian. God’s blessing to you all, Alfred.
Unfortunately, when I needed god the most, she led me to these sexist blogs, and I have been a mess ever since. My god deserted me-wants me to be a slave to men. I have to greject that god for my own good. I still believe, just not the same misogynistic, horrible god you do. Anyway, it did help to talk to someone, but I have to let it go.
Don’t you want to have an equal (not a private to general) relationship. You do have it good-everything you want-your wife will obey. I might like it if someone would do anything I say. Well, anyways, I will probably seek some therapy so I can forget christianity and the bible for good. God did not make me for slavery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I listened to your wife’s speech and found it very insulting. I’m glad the master/slave (and I’m sorry, I can’t see it as anything else) She talked about a general to a private-of course the general is superior, and the private is inferior. My problem is that I keep looking at websites like yours and I want to hurt myself because of my inferiority. And of course submission means inferiority. I wanted to become a lesbian-it looks like that is the only way to have an equal partnership. An no, I was not abused. As a child, my parents were nice, and as an adult I would not allow it. (unfortunately, I abused myself). Is the only marriage that can be equal-a gay marriage? I believe in god and jesus, but I cannot in self-respect ever follow christianity or the bible because of those inferiority lines. It must be nice for you to be the master,and have someone treat you like god. The bible is a terrible terrible book-and if you have daughters, please inform them that they are NOT INFERIOR as the bible says. I must let it go. Thank you for your posts.
Sara. I say this warmly and with great compassion for where it sounds like you have been and where you are at. I think you have more going on in your reaction to the term “submission” than just a mistaken idea about what it means. It’s not healthy to be stuck in the same reaction you had as a teenager 30 years ago.
In the last couple of years my wife learned something key about herself. She was sexually abused by a friend of her family between the age of 7-15 and discovered that a common wound for both men and women who have been abused is to powerfully resist anyone being the boss of them – in relationships, in family, in work, in anything. This of course is crippling in so many ways – especially to intimacy between a man and a woman because at the very root the hurt person cannot find a way to trust. Instead, they get only so close and then push or run away.
By sharing this I am not saying I think your story is the same as my wife’s, but when you said, “If I ever start to feel kindness for a man, I read that verse, and I think He just wants to dominate” it made me wonder if maybe your story and her story overlap in some places.
I don’t want to be unfair or unkind by imagining your story here and then writing about it. But I do want to say if any of the above resonates with you I encourage you to read her story in her blog. You can start reading it at http://www.cybersalt.org/simply-susan/a-new-beginning and then click the “next” button at the bottom of each entry to move forward chronologically. I know that either of us would be happy to have you contact us through our site.
You came here looking for freedom. The freedom you desire *can* be found in Jesus.
I guess the point I am trying to make, is that what’s good for some people, is not good for another. Christianity and the bible were not good for me. It caused me to hate, and still does to an extent. If you parents have daughters, please know how damaging it could be to be considered inferior. And who knows what will cause somebody to have an inferiority complex. I still can’t relate submission to equality, but I did try to understand why some people like it.
When I was 17, I was forced to go to church. One Sunday, they had the submission verse in the gospel. I was actually paying attention that day. I remeber thinking I will never get married-I’m almost 18-almost free. I noticed most marriages I saw (my parents, friends) were equal, but I could’t get that verse out of my mind. Whenever I started to actually like a man, I would read that verse, and I would run the other way as fast as I could. If I feel I am getting weak, I will read that verse, and hatred will come back to me (men will only try to dominate you). Thirty years later, I research religions, and came across this website, thinking maybe just the catholic church said the horrible word-submission. As a teen-I remember thinking that the bible said I was inferior (submissive), and unclean (as a teen-it’s all me, me, me). Well, I see that all christianity thinks that I (women)am inferior (submissive). While the bible causes you to love, it causes me to hate. If I ever start to feel kindness for a man, I read that verse, and I think He just wants to dominate. The bible and christianity is damaging for me, and I’m still trying to heal. I guess I’ll just agree to disagree. If it makes you happy to dominate (be the head of) your wife, and she doesn’t mind, and if it makes you happy, who am I to judge.
Alfred, the conclusion of your argument seems to be that the wife gives her husband the position of leadership – not God.
You need to wrestle the Biblical texts to solve this one – not weeds in your garden. Give this message a listen as a jump start to doing that – http://www.westsidefamily.org/messages/wives-and-husbands
Sara, we submit everyday to people who don’t own us and when we do so we are not making an expression of our own inferiority or individuality. Submission simply does not equal slavery.
I will take you at your word, though, when you say “I don’t care how you put it”. If you don’t care to consider other’s positions then why bother arguing in a forum like this?
Everyone has to accountable for their own choices. The women who let men make all their choices are weak. I don’t care how you put it, the bible advocates slavery for women in their own home. Marriage should be a partnership, not a dictatorship. I’ll make my own choices, thank you very much. Nobody should have to be submissive in their own home.
Now this is getting interesting! While pulling weeds in the strawberry patch before breakfast, and again while mowing grass on our acreage in the afternoon, I had to think and pray about your comments. Then the Lord gave it to me: That man whose been given the authority of leadership has an awesome responsibility. The wife would not even want that responsibility! She may be better at finances or at cooking & baking, or better at communicating with the children, but he is still the head of the family. He needs to see to it that they have a home to live in, are respected in the community, and above all, that they as a family, hold the Lord God in high esteem. This is so big that he needs God’s direction and help to do it.
There was a time in my life when I was unable to fill that role, and my wife took over. Then, a few years later, I was able to earn back that position as head of the family. I first had to become the Spiritual leader, and then the rest gradually came as I proved my worth.
As for slavery, I’m with Abe Lincoln in abolishing it. “Having a nice master” is a lot better than a cruel one, but is still not really giving freedom to the worker. When we have freedom, though, we must take the consequences of wrong decisions…… God is the one who gives us all that freedom. Whether working for ourselves, our spouse, or a boss, we choose to obey God, we choose to do or not to do our best. I think that deep inside we can be free even when under someones command.
So we now have “less inequality between men and women in the world” than there was in Bible times.
Yes, to some degree, I’d say “what the Bible teaches about submission is less relevant or applicable today.” Yet it is there (in the Bible)! Let me qualify that: The Bible is the most authentic book we have in this world, as is was written by God himself (writers were guided by the Holy Spirit). There must be someone in charge, namely the head of the house. That needs to be a person of responsibility, which is a position that is earned, more so than a position inherited.
The passage of Ephesians 5:21-28 is in my opinion to be softened somewhat today, for I know of some powerful women pastors who are speaking God’s word in all truth (better than some men), and I respect them for it. They are a blessing. I think God has called them because too many men have failed to stand up. Because they failed to be where HE wanted them, God passed many men by, and they stand in shame as they suffer the consequences.
So, in closing I’ll say: as the wife gives her husband the position of leadership, and supports him in that, he must take on the responsibility that goes with it.
So slavery is okay if one has a nice master.
Alfred,
Are you saying that what the Bible teaches about submission is less relevant or applicable today because there is less inequality between men and women in the world?
Hi Sara, I am a Blog mentor with Campus Crusade / Power-to-change. There are 2 things that shed light on this issue: 1. In the context of Bible times, there was more inequality between sexes, so we need to allow a little for that. 2. The emphasis here needs to be that a man is to love his wife “as Christ loves the Church (His bride). So, when a husband seeks to please, be considerate and loving, as head of the family, he will discuss matters with her and there will be joint leadership to some extent. That, in my opinion, is marriage at its best. Some husbands are ruled by their wives, which is also not right!
I have, however, heard of a wife submitting to a non-loving husband, praying for him, and believing that God would turn him around; —-HE heard her prayer and did just that. The man changed to become considorate and loving!!!
Oh, and to the slave who thinks submitting at home is the same as submitting at work-I have one thing to say about that-what is your boss at work called-a superior. someone that is below you in work is a subordinate. You may be equal outside work, in real life-but not at work. You are not free at work-you give the company hours of your time in exchange for money. Home is your personal life. You are not free
Submission is slavery. If you are a submissive, you are not free because to submit is to yield your will to another. I think the bible is extremely sexist, and it is very harmful to women. I can’t believe that so many women believe in their own inferiority. No wonder so many women have low self-esteem.
I don’t get submission. Why should I have to submit to my husband in all desicions? Why should have to submit at all? You might say, “Well someone has to be the leader, if theirs no leader then their will be madness” First of all the children are always under the parents authority so its just between mom and dad. They should sit down and discuss it like mature adults, if they come to a disagreement then they should compromise. If that doesn’t work then let it be until one of them decides to swallow their pride and submit to the other idea. Why should I have to be the one swallowing my pride? Even when I’m the one thats right its his desicion to deside weither I’m right and if we should go with that idea? Yeah, I don’t think so.
Its interesting that “independent women” (or men) can even think they can make their “own” decisions. The bible says we are not our own, but we have been bought with a price (1 Cor 6.20). Therefore, none of us has any right to “make our own decisions.” No, we belong to God (if we are really Christians). Submission to your husbands ladies, is really submitting to God. But you know what, true submission starts in the heart. One can be doing actions outwardly, but in their heart, well, that can really be a different story. I’m writing to encourage ladies who really want to obey the bible, but are not sure how to start this submission command. Start in your heart. On the inside, begin to ask God to change your heart for your husband. He will. Do your part. Don’t worry about your husband, pray for him, and God will do a work in his life. You do your part, submit, and watch God do wonders in your marriage. Remember, the heart. Peace.
I invited my wife to team up with me to teach this topic when it came up in my current sermon series in the book of Colossians. I think that message was was Biblically based as well as down to earth and balanced in its application to life.
You’ll find the recording at:
http://www.westsidefamily.org/messages/wives-and-husbands
I go to a church in Denton, Texas called The Village. The lead pastor, Matt Chandler, (who has sermons in itunes and videos on youtube about this topic) has done such a great job helping me to understand what the bible means by submission. Just like so many other women in this era, I immediately bristle up at the word submission and have always had a hard time understanding this concept, as I’m such an independent woman. Here’s a link to him explaining women’s role in the church and family. It’s intended for those seeking membership at the church, but I feel it’s appropriate for just this topic in general. I really hope you get a chance to listen to it, it’s honestly changed my perspective so much.
http://denton.thevillagechurch.net/resource_files/audio/20070204TheRoleofWomen.mp3
Christianity for a woman is like having a burqa on your brain.
@ok
Read the scriptures yourself, clearly you misunderstand things yourself. Yes, the bible says that marriage isn’t for everyone but I know plenty of Christian women who have absolutely no problem with submitting to their husbands and would have it no other way.
There is no such thing as a truly independent person, we all depend on someone else, and we all submit to someone else, whether it be our bosses, or the head’s of our country – all human. God decides who we should ultimately submit to, and in this case he makes it reasonably clear.
@ Diana and Jenny I can see where you both are coming from but for someone who claims to be independent, your comment doesn’t say much to that. I think the reason most women are afraid is because more times than none, men have abused their power. They are human not God and so submission is a very hard thing to do when a woman is then meant to become vulnerable. I think the lack of understanding from both of you women is quite offensive. Please be considerate of others and how they feel. Most of us know that what is in the bible is truth, but I have to say this. We do not always have to agree with something just because it is right. Hence, If you cannot come to terms with it, there is always the choice of staying single. In our modern time, women do not need to get married. Only if you are in dire need of a companion or children, but Who doesn’t want to devote their whole life to serving God without any distractions? I have to say words are multi-layered so anyone can manipulate the word submit. I think the main focus should be mutual love and respect and not on the woman being a slave to her husband. @ Diana, I really do question if you are truly independent. An independent woman would be single and make her own decisions, Would she not?
Way to tell the truth Diana! Let’s stop playing games with the word submission. Ladies, I know it is hard to hear, but it is God’s word. My husband is in seminary and I was shocked at how many of the future pastor’s wives buy into the worlds definition of submit.
Listen,I have studied this over and over. Ladies,the greek explanation for submit does mean to obey,to be obedient. I am a very independent woman but if God says it then what i think doesn’t matter. The truth is the truth! God does not want any man to mistreat a woman but that does not mean he shouldn’t have authority over his home. When we work on a job we expect to have a boss who has authority over us. Why is God’s instruction not as important as our job?
Listen,I have studied this over and over. Ladies,the greek explanation for submit does mean to obey,to be obedient. I am a very independent woman but if God says it then what i think doesn’t matter. The truth is the truth! God does not want any man to mistreat a woman but that does not mean he shouldn’t have authority over his home. When we work on a job we expect to have a boss who has authority over us. Why is God’s instruction not as important as our job? I
Thanks for this comment Reb. Steve. Good insight!
In my opinion a wife should see submission as “coming under the cover of” her husband who is under the “cover” of Jesus Christ. That cover is an umbrella of sorts that PROTECTS her from the “firey darts of Satan”. That umbrella is the blood of Jesus. I hope that will help some. I think it will put a different light on the word submit. No one should make a wife into a door mat, that is not what it is about. It’s about team work for the family and serving EACH OTHER. God Bless.