She Won’t Change Her Last Name
My fiance and I have a great relationship, but there is one thing we cannot agree on. She made a promise to herself, when she was a child, that she wasn’t going to change her last name when she got married. Now that we are together, her idea of a compromise is to wait till she finishes college (four years from now) to change her name to the married name. This is very difficult for me. I am not old fashioned, but the one thing I want in our marriage is unity. I feel very strongly that having our name be the same from the get-go will complete that unity. She suggested hyphening our names, but this would make our combined name over 20 characters long. Am I just being an old-fashioned dinosaur about this? Am I so out of touch with reality to think that this compromise won’t be a good idea?
Advice:
If you have this one issue causing you so much disturbance now, it is a prediction for the future. Neither of you will be happy in your marriage if one caves in on an issue of this gravity. One of you will be resentful and that’s a poor way to start a marriage that you want to last.
I don’t consider myself old-fashioned either, but, I do concur with you about the last name. First of all, when you become a married couple the name change that occurs is a symbol of the couple identity that the two of you are taking on. It’s a symbol of your commitment to one another and to “becoming one”. You love your wife so much that you are giving her your name. Your wife loves you so much that she is taking on a new name. Any children you have will bear that name and carry it into the future.
Secondly, the norm in our society is still for the woman to take on the name of her husband. If you decide to do differently, you will be stepping out of the norm and making it difficult for your children to carry on that name. Suppose your name becomes “Smith-Johnson”. What will a male child pass on if he marries a woman who wants to combine their names — “Smith-Johnson-Schroeder” ? It becomes more and more complicated.
Thirdly, the issue of last names raises questions about the roles of husbands and wives. If you want to take the role leadership in your family passing on your last name will signify that role. The usual role of a married man is that of leader and protector. Be careful here, I’m not saying that the husband is the dominant one or that the wife is not equal, but the last name issue signifies a question about the roles. Who will lead the family? How will decisions be made? Is your finance concerned that if she gives up her name she is giving up her vote in family matter as well? You need to discuss this. This issue is more than “what name shall we choose?” It is an issue with hidden meaning and assumptions about what your relationship will be like and what roles you will take on.
Don’t cave in, talk this through. It sounds like you have a deeper conflict of values and expectations regarding roles. I encourage you to begin working through this. This is really a test of what is going to happen in the years to come in your relationship. Stand up and be a leader. It may mean that you need to post-pone the wedding until you are both happy about the decision you make together. Working through this issue will lay a foundation for how you work through conflict together in the future.
I’m getting married on October 3rd, and in our counseling session, our Pastor informed us that if the future wife didn’t want to take her fiance’s last name, then when they married he wouldn’t be responsible for her. The husband is considered the wife’s covering which include the name. I welcome the chance to become Mrs. Richardson because I love and respect my future husband.
It also depends on the laws of your state or country. I lived in Hong Kong for 6 years and there I learned that it is not a matter of course for the wife to use the husband’s surname. The wife retain her own surname while their children follow the father’s surname. And there is nothing wrong with that. I myself use both my own surname and my husband’s surname, and I see nothing wrong with that; besides, it is allowed by the laws of my country, and it has not become an issue at all between me and my husband.
you are really old fashioned ,I did change my name when I married but if I had my time again I would not do it ever .
A name change does not make you love one another anymore or less you marry the person not the name
If you do some research you will find that most of Europe woman retain there family name that they were born with they do not take on their husbands names. My daughter did not take her husbands name when she married and I applaud her
Her daughter has her fathers name and in the world we live in today its not confusing .What about unmarried couples ?I was born with my uniquie surname why should I just pack it away just because i am married . In some cases when couples dirvorce the woman takes back her birth surname as she dosent want to be known by the husbands name any longer!!!
Follow your heart
My son took his wife’s last name and now they are divorced. He is thinking about getting married but does not want to change his name back so his next wife may have to take his ex-wife’s name? Also he has 2 children with his first wife so if he changes his name back then his name will be different from theirs. His father and I are always embarrassed by his last name being different from ours because it looks like we are a blended family while in reality we are not. I am old but would have been happy with my daughter in law hyphenating her name or keeping her own and letting my son keep his. Her insistence and his capitulation were the beginnings of a marriage that had no clear leader for the family and it did not last in spite of their efforts and desire to avoid divorce. I agree that you need to continue to negotiate until you are both comfortable with your names, no matter what you decide…just be sure to think about what it will feel like years down the road.
In the book of Genesis we see that Adam gave Eve her name, bringing her under his protection.She submitted to him. Submission does not mean women become servants or doormats, they come under our protection as leaders.
Your fiance made a promise that she does NOT want to break. You are asking her to make another promise (get married), will you be ok with that promise if she was to break that one too? Pick your battle, stay unmarried till after school is over for BOTH of you. Then when you join as one flesh you both get what is desired. She keeps her name till after she finishes school then she takes your name and your covering when you wed. You become one flesh with her name being yours. Since her desire is to finish school children are out the question till after school anyway….
“What will a male child pass on if he marries a woman who wants to combine their names — “Smith-Johnson-Schroeder” ? It becomes more and more complicated.”
Why does the hypothetical child get the option of combining names and the current real people do not? If the fiance wishes to keep her given name, her partner should respect that. If he feels strongly that they have the same name, he should be willing to take her name or hyphanate or have two last names. Should they be lucky enough to have children some day who encounter a similar choice to be made, they should encourage them to do as their heart leads them.
Sir, consider changing your name. If you’re “not old fashioned” and it’s the UNITY that matters to you…then change your name.
Keeping her own name is clearly important to her (and I note she’s willing to try to meet you half-way on it). Having the SAME name is clearly important to you. You didn’t specify that keeping YOUR name is terribly important. If unity is the MOST important consideration…then consider changing yours.
And on that note…think of all the reasons you might not want to change your name, and consider that those same reasons apply to her. Her name isn’t less important, and less a part of her identity, simply by the fact that she was born with a vagina.
I’d also like to do this:
First of all, when you become a married couple the name change that occurs is a symbol of the couple identity that the two of you are taking on. It’s a symbol of your commitment to one another and to “becoming one”. Your wife loves you so much that she is giving you her name. You love your wife so much that you are taking on a new name. Any children you have will bear that name and carry it into the future.
Does that bother you? Is it wrong for her family name to be carried on, but not yours?
Here’s another thing I want to do:
My daughter took her husband’s last name and now they are divorced. She is thinking about getting married but does not want to change her name back so her next husband may have to take her ex-husband’s name? Also she has two children with her first husband so if she changes her name back then her name will be different from theirs. Her father and I are always embarassed by her last name being different from ours because it looks like we are a blended family when in reality we are not. I am old but would have been happy with my son-in-law hyphenating his name or keeping his own and letting my daughter keep hers. His insistence and her capitulation were the beginnings of a marriage that had no clear leader for the family (okay, seriously, this line sounds ridiculous no matter which gender I put it in) and it did not last in spite of their efforts and desire to avoid divorce. I agree that you need to continue to negotiate until you are both comfortable with your names, no matter what you decide…just be sure to think about what it will feel like years down the road.
Ohh, incidently? I’ve actually heard women discuss those exact points after a divorce (name ending up different from the children, regretting capitulating to a demand in this regard, wondering how to handle the name upon re-marriage, etc). It’s not just because he’s a man that the name-change adds complication when added to the complication of divorce.
Anyway, I decided to take my husband’s last name, and bumped my middle…taking my maiden name as my middle name. I’d have personally preferred he likewise bump his middle and take my maiden name as his middle as a gesture that he is likewise joining my family, but he is very fond of his name, so I did not insit on the issue. We’re both happy with our names, and it’s not a major issue in the big picture of our marriage.
When the wife with a hyphenated name has children what is the legal name of the child ie. is it hypenated as well or is it the fathers name? Is there a basis of law that states the Child’s name must be that of the father? How can the husband’s grandparents protect the family name?
Thank you
Lots of interesting debate happening here, I like it. Names, as you can all see, carry a great deal of importance and identity and as such, are not changed lightly.
Personally, I was shocked to see the comment at the beginning that a pastor would say that name changing was a condition of protection. The very foundation of marriage is that two people enter into a covenant where their union is no longer conditional. We promise to love, honour, protect & cherish no matter what, until death parts us. Adding a name change as an condition onto that seems to go right across the grain of what is being promised.
Name changing can be a very beautiful thing, but it is always a gift and not a condition. Throughout literature we see names associated with knowing and changing names being an outward symbol of a very personal change that has taken place. It can be very lovely, but not if the change is forced onto someone.
When entering marriage, you bring all of yourself. If a woman — or a man — has a strong personal feeling about changing or not changing their name that needs to be considered as well. How will you resolve things as a couple? Will your answer be “I am disregarding your feelings because this is my right, or because is it traditional?”
Names are intensely personal. If one partner forces the other to give up something this personal, what other part of themself will they be asked to sacrifice?
We lose sight of what is being given when someone takes on a name. In giving his name a husband offers his wife his reputation, his standing in the community and his most personal thing — his name. When a wife takes on her husband’s name, she accepts the responsibility that comes with it. And that is beautiful. But it is not a condition of marriage.
You can’t force a gift. Gifts are supposed to be all about the recipient and what they want. Seasons tickets are a lovely gift for some and a torture to others. Choosing not to take on a new name does not diminish the love or the commitment between two people. It is a matter of personal preference and something that both parties need to be able to talk about freely, long before the ceremony.
While it may be the norm for a woman to change her name to her husband’s upon marriage, it is socially acceptable for a woman to either retain her own last name or to hyphenate. Married couples with different last names can choose what name to give their children.
Women who wish to retain their own names are not as a rule violating the biblical principle of marriage. Name changing is a societal custom for one, and in many parts of the world (Europe, Latin America) women retain their own name after marriage.
When I married I retained my last name. For me, it was an issue of identity, although I believe that women should make a choice they are comfortable with, whether it be hyphenating, name change, or keeping their last name. Men who are too narrow minded to consider a woman’s point of view who prefers to keep her own last name should ask themselves if they would be comfortable giving up their own last name for hers. A healthy marriage comes from far more than sharing the same last name. Numerous failed marriages of couples who shared the same last name should be proof enough that this will not ensure marital unity.
When we first fell in love, I told my husband I was not going to change my name. I use my mother’s maiden name because she’s Danish, and my father’s Canadian. I was born in Canada, and still live here, so my Canadian identity is obvious. I use her last name for ethnic, as well as feminist reasons, and I kept it.
Our address labels say
Christensen & Bennett (just like that with my name first).
My husband actually suggested that. His point was that he’d been married and divorced three times before, and the last thing the world needed was another “Mrs. Bennett,” that the women changed even if he prefered they didn’t, so the fact that I was keeping my name was a big relief to him.
He and I make it a point of putting my name first on EVERYTHING to prove a point to the world that the male gender is not going to crumble and fall, just because we don’t practice “traditional” roles.
Also, one of his ex-wives’ first name is my middle name, and her middle name is one syllable off of my first name, so her being M L Bennett, and me being L M Bennett would have been…*shudder*….too freaking weird!!!
I use my Dad’s name hyphenated with my mother’s name for my writing, but just Mom’s maiden name socially to break with tradition and because Allan-Christensen & Bennett will not fit on an address label, or business card. LOL As it is, we only have our last names on our labels because that’s all that will fit.
Also, Hubby has a relative named Allan (first name) so if I were to hyphenate my original birth name (I changed to Mom’s maiden name in 2001 when I turned 19) I’d have the full name of this relative as my surname.
My husband offered to take my name, and while I was totally flattered by this, I reminded him that by sharing a name, people would still assume that I changed mine, and we’d be called Mr. & Mrs. HisFirst OurLast.
We both concluded that it’s the “&” in Christensen & Bennett that totally unites us. the “&” and our matching wedding bands are all that matters.
As for the point about him being my covering and protector, NO WAY!!! I made sure that I knew how to protect myself, long before I got married, so that I would not fall UNDER the protection of a man. I don’t need him to protect me and be a “traditional” man, WE only need EACHOTHER to love and be loved by EACHOTHER.
Designated gender roles do not exist in our marriage.
We are not planning to have children, but if they were to happen, we both agree they should have my last name, to be untraditional, and because he has lots of children with his name.
Why is it automatically the woman’s responsibility to change her name? If unity is so important to you, change yours. What a ridiculous argument.
Initially I was horrified by the reply to the original post. Usually (and I’v e looked at many such threads) the reply would be supported by the majority of posters. So, you can imagine how pleased I felt to read the thoughtful and sensible replies.
Katt has it absolutely right. Indeed, she uses a technique I use: that of swapping every gendered word and seeing how silly the result sounds.
The only thing I’d like to add to this thread is to point out that surnames are only about 1000 years old and, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Christianity 2000 years old? And Genesis? When was that written? The point is, to use the Bible as a justification for insisting on a single surname is simply anachronistic as surnames (as we understand them) would have been unknown in biblical times.
Cycleboy.
That’s a great point about the age of surnames, vs. the age of the bible. Sadly, it seems that conservative Christians will use anything, no matter how old or new it is, to justify men dominating women.
And Jessica? RIGHT ON!!!! I’ve been asking the same question for years. Why don’t guys change their names to ours, if they WANT the same name so much?
As per my previous response about my husband offering to do exactly that, he said it was because he thought *I* might prefer we have the same name, and when he realized I prefered different last names, we stayed as we were.
And why do the children usually have the father’s name?
Why do men expect us to take their names, but most of them would be offended if we asked them to do the same thing for us?
Why do fathers expect kids to “carry on their name” as the “family” name, yet they’d be offended if we expected the family name to be our name?
Why the freaking double standard?
Why the double standard? welcome to a brief history of western civilization . . . I think often things are, simply because they always were. It takes great effort and often, great sacrifice to change minds and traditions. There was a time, not so long ago when women couldn’t vote and when the color of your skin determined whether or not you counted as a human being. Extreme examples, sure, but things change slowly.
I think that names are something that need to be discussed as a couple. Think about how much discussion goes into the naming of a child. Why should any less discussion come into it when you are naming an adult?
I agree with you about discussion. My husband and I knew eachother for three years before we got married, and most of that time was long distance, because of his work situation. Communication by phone and computer was all we had, so we had a lot of time to discuss anything and everything.
My husband and I discussed names and a lot of other things he mentioned not having discussed in his pervious marriages, and concluded that our level of discussion was why this one worked, and the others did not. This time we both knew what we were doing, what WE wanted to do, how WE wanted to do it, how the other felt about just about everything, and why.
I agree. Rather than there being a bunch of assumptions about traditions etc. there should be discussions. I’ve heard too many women say “of course I changed it. It’s just what we do,” only to regret it later.
im having a similar problem, i really want to carry on my family name and at the same time start a new family under that name, but after having a talk with my girlfriend (not engaged yet) i found she doesnt want to take my name, her reason was she doesnt like my name, its nt anything stupid its quite a sensible name. i feel very strongly bout her taking on my name
Chris – Have the two of you talked about it beyond just ‘do you want to take my name?’ If you do get married there are going to be times when you both feel very strongly about something but are on opposite sides of the decision. How will you work out your differences? This can be an excellent trial run for you to discuss the issue as grown-ups and equal partners and find a solution that works for you both. This would be a really good topic to bring up at pre-marital counseling, if you’re planning to do that.
Chris – I endorsed Katt’s method of swapping the gendered words in any statement as a way to decide how reasonable (or unreasonable) they were. I would repeat that suggestion here.
However, you say you really want to carry on your family name. That may be a perfectly reasonable hope. The only problem is, it could be equally strongly felt in your girlfriend. So, empasse. Stalemate. You therefore need to establish why you feel the need to continue your family name. Just how important is it for you? (Besides, perhaps not a very pleasant thought at this stage, but there is a slight possibility you can’t have children anyway.)
Are your feelings driven by a need to keep a historical link with your ancestors or simply to have a single family name? If the latter, and you feel so strongly about having only one name, then why not hers? If it is the former (as your posting implied) then you obviously have a problem. Compromise, in this situation, is your girlfriend ‘giving way’ which, of course, is no compromise at all. Unless, you have something of equal ‘value’ to offer her.
I am an asian woman and moved to California after my marriage. I didn’t change my name after marriage and all my legal documents in USA contains my maiden name ( which is my surname). Now after 8 years of marriage my in laws are after me to change my name. I don’t want to change my name and my husband is ok with that. In my country it is a tradition that women change their name after marriage. But the law says that women can choose their name after marriage and its not compulsory. I would like to know about the United states law in this issue.
Well, I’m Spanish, so we don’t have to decide about this. In Spain everybody have two surnames, the first is the father’s and the second the mother’s surname. So mothers NEVER have the same as their husbands or children. The only people who have the same two surnames are the brothers and sisters. So, this is the reason for us it’s so strange the anglo saxon system. People in Spain never change their name in their entire lives and for us couples with the same surname seem to be brother and sister. It is more practical because it’s very improbable to find someone named exactly like you. You also can name a child like her mother or father and they are never going to be confused because although they have the same first name one surname is different. English people have asked to me “but how do you write the couple?” like if it were a big problem. You simply could write to Fernandez Gonzalez family but we generally don’t do that, we simply write one of the adults name with the address on the envelope and then we refer to the hole family in the text, beginning with a “Hola a todos” (Hello everybody)
“PLEASE DON’T CHANGE…” Your point is so right.
It’s one of the things that irritates me when people get so defensive about surnames in this culture. They often try to argue along the lines of “How will people know you’re married?” or “Having the same name is important to show unity.” etc. They are showing a profound ignorance of the world where probably about 3 billion people never give it a second thought. They seem to manage perfectly well.
@katty…thank you soo much. that part He wrote “You love your wife so much that you are giving her your name” irritated me so much! for crying out loud she is giving up her own identity for you! its costing you nothing to give her your name!
Charity – I have to respectfully disagree. It does cost a man something to give his wife his name. In giving his name he is trusting her with his reputation. If she takes his name and then goes and does something unwise or illegal she ruins his reputation along with her own. I’m not saying it’s the same as taking on a new name, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that it costs him nothing at all. Having said that, I don’t think a couple should bow to tradition simply because it is traditional. When it comes to names, each couple need to talk about it and find a solution that works for both of them.
Claire according to the article above the headding is (she won’t change her last name) he is the one dieing for her to take his last name.so he should be prepared to bear any good or bad thing that comes with that. are you failing to see the most important point that she is the one losing her name here? if she takes on his name? and what if his family name is already somewhat tarnished? or what if He becomes the bad one to bring shame on the name later? will she not have to bare the the bad reputation?
listen, when i wrote my first comment, i was thinkin the present not future. It could go either way! I just cant stand hearing “you love your wife so much that you are giving her your name”.
And yes I totally agree with you that “they both need to talk about it and find solution”
Personally, I can take a man’s name as long as he is not trying to IMPOSE it on me.
look you [redacted - please remember the terms of service. No name calling] if you love this women so much then you should agree on what she say its nat all about men in this world and ther name
its about women to
women have the rights to keep ther name and they must have right to let ther children have ther name
nat just men should have the rights to let ther children have ther name
im supriesd at men i mean they have a mom a sister a daugther and ant
My husband and I have been married for 43 years. I am not ashamed for taking his last name. In fact, I am proud to have his last name. I have never questioned if I should or should not have taken his name. And, No, I am not one of these Betty Crocker Housewives. I am WOMAN, hear me roar and I am, at the same time, have no problem with who I am.
Judy said: My husband and I have been married for 43 years. … In fact, I am proud to have his last name.
I have no quarrel with that sentiment. The only qualm I have is that there is an expectation in this society that women are expected to be proud to take their husband’s name yet, if the reverse is ever suggested, it is seen as an insult to the man.
If one assumes – as I hope we all do – that men and women have equal status in law and society, then what is ‘right’ for one is, ipso facto, right for the other. If you feel proud to bear his name then that is right for you. However, it should also be the case that he should be equally proud to bear your surname. OK, 43 years ago it might not have crossed either of your minds, but it this day and age, it ought to be the case that men taking women’s names is as common as the reverse. But it isn’t.