Paganism and the Search for Truth and Proof

Paganism.  When asked what it is, most people will not be able to give you an accurate definition.  In fact, in preparation for this article, I asked several random people to define “paganism” for me.  Most people honestly admitted that they did not know.   Those that did know admitted they knew because they had dabbled in the earth religions.

I went to the dictionary to find the definition of “pagan,” and found it to be defined as one who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion, one who has no religion, or a non-Christian (The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition).  I have to admit, this was not quite the answer I sought.

Witches in our midst

Whether you are aware of it or not Paganism is very much alive today as a religion.  Perhaps you might recognize it under a different name?  Witchcraft.  Does that sound too harsh? How about Wicca?

Wicca is the name you might recognize best.  I was almost entirely ignorant of Wicca until eleventh grade, when a good friend of mine informed me during an in-depth discussion about religion that she was a pagan.  This girl was from a good Christian family, so my first question was how her parents felt about this decision.  They didn’t mind, she claimed.  It’s not like she was walking away from the church.  It was, she claimed, entirely possible to follow paganism and be a Christian at the same time.

If so, my only remaining question is, why does a secular, non-Christian dictionary define “pagan” as simply “one who is not a Christian”?

My contact with any practicing witches was cut off until my first year at university, when I met a young man on the bus.  He lived on my street and took the same bus as me every morning.  He is a witch, actively involved in the practice of the religion Wicca.  Like my friend from high school, he refers to himself as a Pagan, in the religious, if not, moral sense of the word.  It was through this friend that I discovered how active witchcraft is today.

When you first read the word “witch” perhaps the first mental image is that of an old hag and her cauldron.  Thinking about teenagers practicing witchcraft, one first tends to think about angsty Goths dressed in near-shredded black clothes, with black finger nails and black lipstick.  But Goth is a subculture, not a religion.  One does not need to be a witch to be a Goth than one needs to be a Christian to attend church.  One decision may influence the other, but they can be mutually exclusive.  On the contrary, both my friends who were Pagans dressed quite normal, though the girlfriend from high school admittedly leaned towards long flowing skirts and ribbons.

Modern Day Halloween

In today’s world, there is an undeniable lure towards spiritualism.  What is the root of this lure?

It is now October, and my friend from university is preparing for Halloween.  Among practicing pagans, Druids and Wiccans, it is said that that there are two days in the Celtic calendar when the veil between the spirit world and the physical one is thinner.  Halloween is one of these two nights, as it is the midpoint of the Fall and Winter equinoxes.  Because the veil between the spirit  and the physical world  is believed to be thinnest on this night, the Druids and Celts would communicate with the dead through seances.  Modern Wiccans still engage in this practice.

The question remains, what is the pull of Wicca? Why are so many people drawn to Wicca?

A recent study finds that only 12 per cent of Canada’s population of more than 30 million is atheistic.  The remaining 82 per cent believed either in God or in some “higher power.”  In the United States this number is even lower, as only 0.3 per cent of the population is entirely atheistic.  These studies suggest that people gravitate towards believing in some kind of supernatural power, rather than denying the spiritual aspect of existence.  It takes considerably more work for the average person to disbelieve in God than it does to believe in Him. I think this coincides with the Biblical teaching that God created humankind with a spirit, and humankind is aware of this.

So if humankind is inclined to spirituality, why and how do people choose the kind of spiritual practices they follow? Why do people chose witchcraft and paganism? Is truth found in this form of religion?

The Truth About Paganism

It is said that the best deceptions are made believable when mixed with a grain of truth.  There is a tiny grain of truth in Paganism, and this, mixed with the sweetness of the lie, makes for a palatable religion that is gaining increased popularity.

What’s the truth?

The truth is that there is a spiritual realm to the world.  It is an undeniable fact.  However, despite their inner knowledge of this fact, people want proof.  They want to see and touch and feel and know.  They want to know the future, and so some turn to Tarot cards and astrology.  They want to know the past and the fate of their deceased loved ones, and so turn to spiritualism and psychics.  They see the beauty of nature and so instead of worshipping the God who created nature, they worship nature itself, calling her a goddess.  The followers of this religion, aware of their own spirit, have made their own spirit out to be “like a god.”

What’s the lie?

The religion of Wicca is such a palatable and beautiful deception.  It begins with certain basics which even cause some Christians to do a double take and consider it.

Part of the “Pledge of Pagan Spiritualism”, the sort of “believer’s creed” held by Wiccans reads as follows:

May I always remain strong and committed to my Spiritual ideals in the face of adversity and negativity. May the Force of my Inner Spirit ground out all malevolence directed my way and transform it into positivity. May my Inner Light shine so strongly that malevolent forces can not even approach my sphere of existence.

There is a basic acknowledgement of malevolent forces.  There is an understanding of Good and Evil, common to all of mankind.  There is an awareness of dark forces.  There is, however, no concept of how sin originally began.  There is no acceptance of humankind’s imperfections and our inability to save ourselves.

The pull of Wicca, Paganism, and Spiritualism as a whole is the search for solid proof of something most people already know to be true.  We do have a spirit that longs for a spiritual connection  with God.  God made us that way. But God also made us to have connection with Him through Jesus Christ. And that is the difference. Paganism, Spiritualism and Wicca deny the power and authority of Jesus Christ over their lives. Their way of finding spiritual connection and fulfillment involves using their own human wisdom and strength to find answers by invoking dark powers, which are antithetical to Jesus Christ.

In a letter written to the early Christians in the Greek merchant city of Corinth, around 50 A.D., a man named Paul observed that God  used the foolish things of the world to shame the wise and the weak things to shame the strong, because His “foolishness” is wiser than our wisdom and His “weakness” stronger than our strength.  He did this so that no one can boast about their own strength or wisdom before Him.

In Paganism there is a basic search for truth and proof of this truth.  However, they try to prove God without ever looking His way.  There are many tangible ways in which God proves Himself to His people.  Nature is one of these ways.  However, there are times when God calls us to simple faith, without total exhaustive proof.  They will not believe in Him because they have not seen Him.  But blessed, Jesus says, are those who have NOT seen and yet believe.

What about you? What is it that you are looking for? One can spend a whole lifetime searching for perfect proof. One can create proof to satisfy a desire. One can also look at the proof that exists and accept it as it is. Instead of worshipping nature, worship Jesus Christ, the God who created nature.

Instead of seeking self-enlightenment and self-fulfillment through dark knowledge and powers, worship Jesus Christ the God who died for humankind so that we could find fulfillment in Him. In doing this, in finding faith in the love and forgiveness that comes through Jesus Christ can one can be satisfied.

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77 thoughts on “Paganism and the Search for Truth and Proof

  1. shelley andersonshelley anderson

    Well! What a huge subject. The world is changing ever so quickley, as we get inot to this Paganism thing. You see it on TV and all over the world. It is every where you go. I belive in the Trinity-Father God, Jesus christ and Holy Spirit and know that there are forces out there that work for satan who is in the world trapping people into his world. We need to be awhere of what is happening and not get into the world system.

  2. DW

    @ Jamie : Jamie, to answer you, I think that not just any path will do. You have to live a life that you know Jesus can forgive you for. Does this give you carte-blanche to do whatever? Of course not. In the end it is my belief in him and his Father that guides what I do with this life. I don’t go around chasing women as I am a married man. I don’t go around killing others. I don’t go around intentionally trying to harm others with my words or deeds. I look to the Commandmants that God passed down to Moses, and I follow the Golden Rule that Jesus gave to us. As I would not want to be hurt by others, I don’t try to hurt others. All I’m saying is I don’t have to be a bible thumping church goer to be a Christian. At least that is the way I see it. If I’m wrong ( and I’m sure there are plenty of persons out there that think I am ) then I still argue that it is to God that I have to answer to, not a man on a podium proclaiming threats of brimstone and hellfire if I don’t live my life the way he has interpreted that it should be led. Perhaps I’ve just had bad experiences with churches. At any rate I believe I have answered to your question and I’ll be happy to continue to do so for those that are thoughtful and polite in challenging my way of belief.

    @ Br Gregory : Let me answer you point by point and hopefully make my stance a bit clearer to you.

    “Sadly to say you have no justifiable conclusion of being a Christian if you are a practasing Satanist”

    At what point did I mention that I practice Wicca or any Satanic belief? I don’t. I read my Bible and live my life according to its teachings.

    “Foremost, you have no understanding of theology from comments.”

    I am not a theoligist. You are absolutely correct. I’m merely one person living his life in a manner he hopes is good enough for God and won’t cause Jesus any undue suffering when it comes my time to join him.

    “You do not know God because you blame Him for all the woes of the world.”

    I do not see where I blamed God for any woes of the world. I blame his so called followers, the human factor, and their misguided fanaticism that they use to do whatever they would to other people to make them see life the same way they do. They have another word for that. Dictatorship. It, in no way that I have read from the Bible, spreads a message of love, peace, and forgiveness in the actions they take to force a person to believe as they do.

    “Lets make this clear- any one who serves two Masters and calls themselves “Christian” is dillusional. Paganism borderlines on Satanism for it serves the same Master under a different iddealogy- it follows the same roots of Kabbalah Mysticism.”

    Yes, I’ll assume you are absolutely correct as I have not one whit of what Kabbalah Mysticism is or what it’s about. I do know that I am Commanded to not put forth any other idols before my God. I don’t see where in my previous post that I stated I served both God and some Pagan deity. I do not. I don’t believe in the Pagan way of life. All I’m saying is it’s not my place to force my way of life on others. They must answer to God in the end, not me.

    “just like there is ONLY One Christ and ONLY One TRUE RELIGION; Orthodox Christianity. Not fractions, nor segments anything below this fundamental truth is in ERROR and that can be justified.”

    Br, indeed for you and I there is only one Christ, only one true religion. However I don’t see where othodoxy has anything to do with it. Granted I don’t know enough about all the various factions and fractions of today’s Christianity, hence why I for go them all in my own private study of the Bible. I let God guide my thoughts during these times that I read and meditate on the lessons He gives. As I stated before, if I’m in error, He is the one that is going to correct me. But for you to state that Orthodox Christianity is the only way to Christ, smacks of hypocrisy just as much as some Anglician, Catholic, Presbeterian?? etc etc saying their way is the only way. Perhas hypocrisy is not the correct word, but it is the only one that comes to me at the moment. Apologies if this gives offence, and count it up as a failure in my vocabulary.

    “When you address “God” and then “Jesus Christ” you show a lack of understanding the Divine nature of the Godhead; which exsists in a pluriaty of divinity in a three- hypostatic unity of essences- a Trinity is God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit)”

    I apologize for the oversight. God knows my understanding of his multifacted divinity.

    “So sadly- you have no idea of Christianity- because you are an infidel!! A pagan- an idolater- you worship and believe in esoteric mysticism which called by oyr Lord, Jesus Christ as EVIL- therefore you are not a Christian, but a Satanist.”

    LOL. Easy big guy. Please don’t stress your heart on my account because you totally and obviously read a whole lot more into my previous post than was actually written by me. :) I’ll just use this quote as an absolute example as to why I don’t believe in churches and man-made relegious structures. Obviously because I don’t believe exactly in the same manner as you, I am damned and not a Christian. I’ve said it before, I’ll let God be the judge of that, not you. :) Please give my previous post a careful read through and point out to me where I have said I believe in other than God, his Son, AND the Holy Spirit. (The Trinity if you will)

    “There is only ONE God, revealed in Jesus Christ. There is ONLY ONE Christian flock- that all Christians belong to. There is ONLY ONE FAITH (Orthodoxy) and there is ONE LIFE- this one.”

    Yes, yes, and if you aren’t christian, then you are not part of the flock so yes again. Tell me again how Otrhodoxy is any better than Catholicism, Anglician, yadda yadda. And yes there is only one MORTAL life. Don’t be forgetting about the more important one that you spend with Jesus in Heaven once you have left your material shell. I’d say that’s the one that counts more.

    “If your beliefs are counteracted by stupid philosophical and worldly connections- then you have sold your rights already to the Devil. The only way out is not just FAITH in Jesus Christ but REPENTANCE”

    M’kay. Please don’t hold your breath waiting for me to perform a self flaggalation down the center of Main St. for your benefit so you can see how I have atoned for any sins I may have commited. Once again, that’s more along the lines of a personal relationship with God, not a public one.

    “You are not a Christian but a Pagan. There is a difference.”

    Wow, I bet Jesus would be surpised to hear about the first part. As to the second, I completely agree with you, there is a difference, and I’m nothing close to Pagan.

    “GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT first and then BE EXCUSED TO SHARE AN OPINION!!!”

    Well, I’ve read and re-read my previous post a number of times. As I see it, it is mostly a monologue in what I believe and as such, unless you are calling me out a liar while I was writing that post, I do believe that I did have my facts correct. As for sharing my opinion allow me to remind you that where I live, I have the freedom of speech in my constitution. Hence I don’t need to be excused by you or any other person to state my opinion.

    Br Gregory, one last bit of wisdom before I leave you. “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” (Proverbs)

    @ Moderator : I thank you for your thoughtfulness on removing Br Gregory’s post, however as I hope you can see, I really don’t take umbrage at someone questioning me about my belief system. I’m more than happy to clarify it for those who have questions. I’ve copied a large amount of his message so that all persons could see what was said and so I could provide him with direct reference to what he said, not what I thought he said. As well it let me answer him point for point in a manner that I do hope is not taken as sarcastic or demeaning to him in any way.

    God Bless,

    DW

  3. AlfredAlfred

    Hi Shelly, You are so right, we have as calling to a life that the world cannot understand. While the Devil is working in this fast-changing world we are to be awake, discerning the signs of the times. To keep from being swamped we need to be well versed in the Scriptures and diligent in prayer. People who work at handling money do not study all the many counterfeits, but “only study the real thing”, and can spot a counterfeit easily. So, we too need only to study the Real Thing, and we’ll know when we come across false teachings and worldly distractions. May the Holy Spirit be your guide and mine!

  4. JamieJamie

    DW, You are right that God is the One who ultimately directs the course of our lives and we are called to follow in obedience to Him. So how do you determine how God is leading you? Does the Bible play a role–unthumped of course:)–in the way you understand God’s direction?

  5. DW

    @Jamie: Yes the Bible is a huge part of my life guidence. I look to it when I am troubled, so that I may find the right path to take during trying times in my life. I look to it when I am happy so that I may best thank the Lord for all my blessings. I look to it to learn how to forgive when I feel I am wronged. I look to it to descern whether I am wronged or if I am incorrect about a person’s actions. Am I being wronged, or am I missing a bigger lesson from God through a person? I look to it to learn how to love deeper, more faithfully. Through all the many avenues we have to choose in living our life, I use the Bible and my sense of what is correct and right to guide me through it.

    God Bless,

    DW

  6. JamieJamie

    I agree DW, that the Bible is a huge help in knowing God and discovering what His purpose for me is. How do you understand the parts of the Bible that talk about how we as followers of Jesus are dependent on one another and are called to encourage, teach, rebuke and build up one another? And what about the instruction to not neglect the regular gathering together of God’s people?

  7. ANAND

    all the religions really worship one god, as a verse from the bhagavad gita says that whichever gods you worship they are all like streams that reach the one single god(the eternal truth)

  8. JamieJamie

    Anand, while I appreciate the desire of a statement like that to minimize conflict and tension amongst people, it just does not connect with reality. Most religious beliefs do have some similarities but there are also such huge differences. To say that they worship the same God paints a picture of a God with an incredibly split personality.

    Jesus gives us a very different picture. Truth is by its very nature exclusive. To say that something is true is to imply that all other things are false. It would seem to me that what the bhagavad gita is saying by this statement is the exact lie that Satan is recorded in the Bible to be saying to our first ancestors, Adam and Eve. He said, “If you eat the fruit that God has forbidden you to eat you will become just like God. That’s why God has forbidden it.” The bhagavad gita is suggesting that we can invent whatever we god we want because we are just like God and can choose our own way.

    Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to God except through me.” I know that is an arrogant statement and highly exclusive. But since it is true then it is the most loving statement that He could make because to suggest anything else would be to let people follow a false path.

  9. ANAND

    well first of all when we read each and every verse in any of the holy scriptures we should also see that when and how does the person in it says that sentence.religions are all ways of life,they all lead us to god.but many verses from these books contradicts each other.so in such a situation it is very important to find the similiar verses in all these scriptures.accept all the supreme beings(like krishna,jesus,muhammed) in these books and believe that the one and only god,he himself sent all of them for the sake of mankind.

  10. JamieJamie

    But Anand, why would I accept anything that Jesus says if He also makes these arrogant exclusive statements that you say are false? How could I accept Him as a supreme being if He tells such great lies (as you say they are)?

    You see Jesus does not leave you with the option of accepting part of what he is saying and leaving out the parts that you don’t like. His claim to being the only Way to know God is either a huge lie from a devious liar, a delusion of grandeur from someone insane, or it is the truth. So which do you choose? Is Jesus a liar, a lunatic or your only hope of knowing God?

  11. David Gontar

    Newsflash! World’s greatest writer (and thinker) was a dedicated pagan.
    That’s right. William Shakespeare was a pagan right down to the marrow of
    his bones. His central concept was Wyrd. NEW BOOK shows this at length.
    Read: HAMLET MADE SIMPLE AND OTHER ESSAYS by David P. Gontar (New English Review Press, 2013)

    Thanks and blessings on you.

    David

  12. JamieJamie

    Hi David, you must have done a lot of study on Shakespeare. What do you think makes him such a valued writer and thinker?

  13. david gontar

    Dear Jamie:

    Thanks for your question about Shakespeare. There are,
    of course, many aspects of his writing which play a part
    in his popularity. First is his poetry and incomparable
    use of language. No has has ever assembled elements of
    English which have such power to affect and move us. Second
    is his unrivalled insight into the human soul. His
    psychological vision and understanding have made him vastly
    influential not just in literature but in psychology as well.
    Sigmund Freud, for example, wrote under the sway of Shakespeare’s
    insights. Third is his compassion and moral strength making
    him a first class source of happiness and moral improvement.
    Finally we find his religious depth which, from the point of view
    of paganism, reflects his fascination with the gods and the ancient
    concept of Wyrd (as evidenced by the “weird sisters” in Macbeth and
    his constant use of synchronicity. All of these wonderful dimensions
    of Shakespeare’s art have always placed him at the top of the
    leader board when it comes to transformative capacity and reader
    satisfaction. Hope this helps. In my latest book, HAMLET MADE SIMPLE AND OTHER ESSAYS I attempt to address and explain all this. I have studied
    Shakespeare each day for over 20 years.

    Best wishes,

    Dave Gontar

  14. JamieJamie

    So Dave, what is it about the Pagan worldview that strikes you as a true reflection of the world we live in?

  15. David Gontar

    Well, Jamie, it seems to me that the ancient peoples
    around the world had a better relationship to the encompassing
    dimension than do we. The Chinese meta-concept of
    Tao, the Greek notion of Physis and the north European term
    Wyrd all strike me as pointing in that direction. It isn’t so
    much the term “paganism” which is helpful for me as those
    positive word signals that orient the mind. We must acknowledge
    that the gods have fled in some sense from ourselves and
    our speech and actions must be mindful of that. Unthinking
    veneration of disassembled pantheons may not be the best strategy,
    but of course each individual must approach modernity as he or she
    thinks best. For myself, I prefer a sincere dedication to exploring
    and recovering physis, Tao and Wyrd as paths to meaning and insight.
    Shakespeare is one doorway into that area of spiritual recovery. It
    isn’t for everybody, but it’s convenient on account of our affinity
    for English. By contrast, to study and adopt as a spiritual master, e.g.,
    a Sri Ramakrishna or seek to embrace as a westerner Zen or the Vipassana in
    Buddhism may work, but those traditions are often foreign to our own backgrounds. Through Shakespeare we tap into the hidden power and genius
    of the English language, which is an essential aspect of who we are.
    Does that help?

  16. JamieJamie

    Sorry Dave, you will have to help me understand those concepts better. What is Tao, Physis and Wyrd? How do they help you find meaning and insight?

  17. LeylandCypress

    I’ve been a practicing pagan for 5 years. How can you do a study of paganism in general and Wicca in particular, and not have heard of the Wiccan Rede?

    And harme ye none, do as ye will? We are clearly told not to align with evil forces.

    As for Christianity, it teaches that anything not of it’s faith is evil. In that case, why the adoption of pagan holidays? Why the teaching of things not in the Bible, such as Hell, and trinity? They just aren’t in there.

  18. David Gontar

    Jamie, Maybe the best idea would be for you to look those
    things up and study them. It’s not difficult.

  19. JamieJamie

    Hi David, I guess I was hoping to hear your perception of those concepts because not everyone understands them in the same way. Also I am very curious to know how those help give you meaning and insight into life.

  20. David Gontar

    Dear Jamie,

    Let me suggest that you take your wonderful persistence and intellectual
    curiosity and invest it in the book I mentioned to you back in January, Hamlet Made Simple and Other Essays. If you look closely you’ll find a
    an exposition of Shakespeare’s paganism and the nature of Wyrd. Trying to express those ideas in abbreviated form here would not accomplish very much. True learning lies in the big books, Jamie, not in sound bites online. If we are willing to enter into serious dialogue with literature, we discover things and change. That’s my counsel and my hope for you. Sincerely, Dave Gontar

  21. JamieJamie

    Hi LeylandCyress, I think that is great to have such a central value of doing no harm. That is easier said than done though, don’t you think? Is harm happen just by doing things or aren’t there times when not doing things causes harm? We often hear people talking about taking care of themselves but that often results in hurting others. When a marriage breaks down and one partner has fallen out of love with their spouse and finds another that they truly feel is their soul mate is it right to hurt the spouse by leaving them and marrying the other? How does Wicca help people navigate all those ethically difficult situations?

    You asked some questions about Christianity which I think are important to clarify. First of all, rather than say “Christianity teaches that anything not of its faith is evil” I would rephrase to say “Anything not of God is evil.” My reason for that difference is because God is–and has been throughout the history of the humanity–actively revealing Himself to us all. So it is not surprising then that all cultures and religions have adopted aspects of His truth. I think all religions have this underlying sense that humanity is incomplete or imperfect. That is clearly something that God has revealed to us. Just because other religions also acknowledge the imperfection of humanity does not mean then that Christians reject that as evil. But the different ways that other religions, worldviews and cultures attempt to address and correct those imperfections may run contrary to what God has revealed. In fact, I think that is the most significant argument for Christianity as true because all other religions, worldviews, cultures etc. recommend something for humans to do in order to deal with their own personal or corporate imperfections. Jesus said that He is the only way to deal with those imperfections and to have relationship with God. His death paid the penalty for those imperfections on our behalf so that now we can stand before God pure, without any imperfection. Followers of Jesus put their trust in His death rather than anything that they can do, or any enlightenment that they can achieve, or any other means of paying for their own imperfection. It’s uniqueness at least encourages closer investigation to discern it truth.

    You also refer to the way Christians have adopted pagan rituals and holidays. While I know of some Christians who would agree with you and do not celebrate those holidays, in most cases, the intent behind taking those holidays and making them Christian was out of a desire to show how Christ has taken our lives which were trapped in a rebellion against God and redeemed them for the purposes of God. Those holidays really become an example of what has happened in the life of a follower of Jesus: once they were opposed to God and lived life for their own purpose, but now Jesus has died for them and adopted them into His family so they are now set apart for the purposes of God and reveal His transforming power.

    You also identified two teachings that you claim are not in the Bible. There I would have to disagree with you. First Hell is a reality referred to throughout the Bible. There are different names that are used to refer to Hell–Abbadon, Hades, Lake of Fire, etc.–but there is no question that it is a literal place that is characterized by torment due to the complete absence of God and His goodness and love.

    Secondly, you also suggest that “Trinity” is a foreign concept in the Bible. While it is true the word ‘Trinity’ is never used in the Bible the idea of one God existing in Three Persons–God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit–is the way that He has revealed Himself in the Bible. Just a few references would be Matthew 28:19 where Jesus Himself instructs His disciples to baptize people “in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit”. Another is 2Corinthians 13:14 where Paul closes his letter with “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.” Another is found in Hebrews 9:14 which talks about how Jesus’ death pays the penalty of our sin, “how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?” I could go on but suffice it to say that God has clearly revealed Himself in the Bible as 1 God existing as 3 persons.

  22. onyi

    Is a shame—how you have to compare your God and religion to paganism to make it sound realistic or real………..i was once a full blown christian and now Celtic pagan……..will never return to Christianity. I disagree with your bias and view on paganism. This world is both light and dark, good and bad—-you can’t neglect this fact through religion

  23. Michael JantzenM. Jantzen

    Hello Onyi, thanks for joining the discussion (really, I don’t mind your directness as all). I am curious about what you believe is the Christian belief about “Light and dark, good and bad.” You must have had good reason to decline that as it was presented by your family or church growing up. Could you describe the difference between the Christian view and your celtic pagan view on the topic to show us how what you believe is more ‘realistic.’

  24. B. MillerB. Miller

    DW, I certainly understand why you would take offense, or at the very least, feel judged, by the comments that were posted and then removed by our moderator in reference to you not being a Christian. It is my belief that only the Lord God Almighty can truly judge our hearts, and that He is the one who sees all hearts. In saying that, DW, you stated that, “All I’m saying is I don’t have to be a bible thumping church goer to be a Christian.”

    DW, I completely agree that those who try to force the Scriptures onto others are not following the will of God, as He did not force His views onto anyone. Quite the contrary; He offered Himself and His love and life freely to anyone who wanted eternal life and relationship with Him and who was willing to deny themselves and place Him first to have that life. However, I would disagree with you in terms of the Church being a man-made, if that is what you meant when you stated that, ” I don’t believe in churches and man-made relegious structures.” It is clear from the Scriptures in Matthew 16:17-19 that Jesus Christ founded the Church, not human beings:

    17 Then Jesus answered him, Blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied) are you, Simon Bar-Jonah. For flesh and blood [men] have not revealed this to you, but My Father Who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter [Greek, Petros—a large piece of rock], and on this rock [Greek, petra—a huge rock like Gibraltar] I will build My church, and the gates of Hades (the powers of the infernal region) shall not overpower it [or be strong to its detriment or hold out against it]. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind (declare to be improper and unlawful) on earth must be what is already bound in heaven; and whatever you loose (declare lawful) on earth must be what is already loosed in heaven. [Amplified Bible]

    Many of us, including myself, have been wounded by members of the Church, just as we have wounded others. Nonetheless, all of us who are believers in Christ are the Church – the body of Christ – and just as we are forgiven by Jesus, it is my belief that we are likewise called to be forgivers if we desire to receive His forgiveness, which we so desperately need in this lifetime:

    “9 In this manner, therefore, pray:
    Our Father in heaven,
    Hallowed be Your name.
    10 Your kingdom come.
    Your will be done
    On earth as it is in heaven.
    11 Give us this day our daily bread.
    12 And forgive us our debts,
    As we forgive our debtors.
    13 And do not lead us into temptation,
    But deliver us from the evil one.
    For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
    14 ‘For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.’” [Matthew 6:9-15, NKJV]

    I am sorry you have had bad experiences with the Church, DW. It is my prayer that you, and all of us, will be able to find peace and forgiveness in your heart for all those who have hurt us so that we and you may have complete assurance when we meet Jesus face-to-face that He will have granted us the forgiveness we have mercifully and graciously extended to others. From my experience, living with bitterness and anger due to past injury does not allow for the peace that Christ came to leave us: the peace that surpasses all understanding.

    Thank you, DW, for writing such an intensive response.

  25. B. MillerB. Miller

    Alfred, it is so true that, without knowing the Truth of God’s Word, we cannot know a counterfeit when we meet one, and the Holy Spirit is our True Guide in understanding and discerning both the Scripture in all its Truth, as well as all spirits in their truth or falseness. Surely, it is vital for followers of Christ to be regularly studying His Word and to be seeking the Wisdom and guidance of His Holy Spirit as to how to interpret all that we read as we pray over the Scriptures. Thank you so much for your words of wisdom.

    Shelley, I agree that we need to be aware that Satan does not want us to win the victory with and in Christ Jesus our Lord. One of my favourite sections of Scripture for how to stand against our enemy, while being very alert to his wiles, is found in 1 Peter 5:5-10:

    Clothe (apron) yourselves, all of you, with humility [as the garb of a servant, so that its covering cannot possibly be stripped from you, with freedom from pride and arrogance] toward one another. For God sets Himself against the proud (the insolent, the overbearing, the disdainful, the presumptuous, the boastful)—[and He opposes, frustrates, and defeats them], but gives grace (favor, blessing) to the humble. Therefore humble yourselves [demote, lower yourselves in your own estimation] under the mighty hand of God, that in due time He may exalt you, Casting the whole of your care [all your anxieties, all your worries, all your concerns, once and for all] on Him, for He cares for you affectionately and cares about you watchfully. Be well balanced (temperate, sober of mind), be vigilant and cautious at all times; for that enemy of yours, the devil, roams around like a lion roaring [in fierce hunger], seeking someone to seize upon and devour. Withstand him; be firm in faith [against his onset—rooted, established, strong, immovable, and determined], knowing that the same (identical) sufferings are appointed to your brotherhood (the whole body of Christians) throughout the world. And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace [Who imparts all blessing and favor], Who has called you to His [own] eternal glory in Christ Jesus, will Himself complete and make you what you ought to be, establish and ground you securely, and strengthen, and settle you. [Amplified Bible]

    May we be blessed, each and every one, as we stand on the Word of God, knowing that God will exalt us in His due time if we are willing to be obedient and patient, waiting and trusing in Him and His Word of Truth. Amen.

    Chris, did you have a question about the article or one of the responses?

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