Can You Connect to God Without Religion?

Written by Karen Schenk

soulcravingsfindreligionIs there a difference between God and Religion? There is definitely a difference between God and religion.  God is someone I have a relationship with.  My view on God can be altered by many factors in my life.  It can be affected by my relationship with my own father or even by my culture and the people I spend time with.

I see religion is a set of beliefs that have guidelines for behavior associated with them.    There are many religions with many differing beliefs and rules.   I don’t  think God needs religion.  He wants to have a relationship with me.   It is so easy for me to get confused and think that my relationship with him has rules of engagement.    I love knowing that God cares about me and that my relationship with him does not need a lot of order and structure.  I want to participate in religion or church to celebrate his holiness, but it’s not a condition of knowing God.  Do you believe you can you connect to God without religion?

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931 Responses to “Can You Connect to God Without Religion?”

  • Joseph Matusaitis says:

    I believe that all religions with rigid conceptions of “GOD” were devised to keep people from having a relationship with “GOD”. Devised as a way to cause mass hysteria and compliance to whatever those who were more intelligent wanted. If people were indoctrinated while they were still young, by the people that they loved and trusted the most it would take a long time before they would see the truth. It’s cyclic and maniacal in nature. it is perpetuated from generation to generation. It is filled with superstition, illogical, and sheer non sense.

    The Truth is out there, and the key that unlocks the door to this truth is hidden away in the heart and mind of every person. no religion necessary. Religion is an abomination to Truth-“GOD” is Truth.

  • Jamie Jamie says:

    Hi Seth,
    Thanks for taking the time to share your ideas here. How would you define the difference between ‘religion’ and ‘relationship’? You suggest that we are to be aware of the Creator’s existence and live a good life style; how does that constitute a ‘relationship’? You also say that humans are wired to know right and wrong; why do we do what is wrong then? What are the consequences of doing wrong things?

  • Seth brooker says:

    Basically straight up I can relate to your post I believe our individual relationships with god is what was intended from the beginning of existence.

    I believe this is evident in basic history as once upon a time pre humans believed In god or the creator spirit without even being able to speak a word.

    And religion as far as I’m concerned was made up by us humans as way to gather a following and dictate what we should or shout not do but also a means to gain power and wealth.

    Personally I don’t think we are supposed to have a name for this consciousnious entity that created everything into existence only that we are
    to be aware of the existence and that all that we need to know.
    (no label or name just being aware and follow a good life style)

    And i also believe in basic nature we already wired know whats right and what’s Wrong just like animals are wired to survive.

    For me this entity is everything that exits and guides us.

    And every thing is made up of energy and energy is a constant no beginning and no end just present for me that is my relationship with god know to others.

  • Jamie Jamie says:

    Hi Felipe,
    I appreciate the struggle you are feeling. I think there a many people that would resonate with your sentiment, “I want to follow god my own way but his way as the same time”. I guess one of the great things that I find hope in is that God’s way for me to connect in a relationship with Him is the best way for me, so I can trust that He will guide me into that path if I am willing to follow.

    I am interested in knowing what it is about your experience of religion that has convinced you that it is not God’s way. What is it you have seen in your grandparents’ or cousin’s church that does not feel right to you?

  • Felipe Peregrino says:

    Hi, I want to be able to follow god without label or religion, I just want do the right thing and what God wants me to do with my life I want to be in the right way ,but don’t want to be force or compromise to go to a church or anything like that, of course I would like to be free of experience any type of religion traditions like go to church Sundays with my grandparents or Christian church with my cousin , is that possible? I want to follow god my own way but his way as the same time, and I want someone to show me if there’s such a way and how to start.

    Thank you

  • Me without religion is Jesus plus nothing…No additives.

  • Rick says:

    This topic interests me since my teens. Many theories in my mind, I intend to seek the truth about us. I know it is impossible as all religion or any form faith was brought down through scriptures learnt or thought by gurus or preachers.Not like the old times where angels comes down from the heavens to visit planet earth or even people have been raised from the dead, coupled with prophets who works as a middle person to preach the word of god.
    Recently I have concluded that religion is not from god. It may sound harsh but I think that religion is either man made or something made up to protect the interest of a certain race of people for world dominance. It does not make sense when the 3 main origin of the middle eastern religion was preached by prophets who are related. The idea of a certain race to be the chosen one to me to be rediculous. It seem to be like a franchise as a certain race was given priority or attention by god.
    When Adam was created, the angels were commanded to bow to him. This did not make any sense as Adam was a man and not god. I strongly think god does not require a middle man to act. God does not even have to rely upon angels in order to act. There are many incident as stated in the scriptures that does not make sense to me. I do strongly believe there is a creator or god, however religion in general has made the image of god to be weak. Many instances as indicated in the scriptures, which shows that god gave tests to his prophets, as if he would not know what the outcome was going to be. Certain religion teaches that god allows war whereby this shows that killing another human being is allowed provided a certain law is abide. This is my opinion and not intend to preach or influnce anyone or hurt anyones feelings due to their faith. I don’t have intention to debate.

  • KMacherere says:

    when you are born into your family with Father , mother and brothers. you are bound together by love not by religion.
    the way you relate to each other can not be boiled down to a certain religion and yet it is pure and lovely.
    the same applies with our Father in heaven. I call Him our Father because the term is relational more than religious.
    Disciples were not even called to a certain religious circle. it was some time later that believers were called Christians at Athens.
    The different forms of religion should just strive to bring man to God. once that is done then we need no religion but a relationship. God is more concerned about who we are more than what we do. Religion is more focused on what we do or don’t do and may even forget about what we have become. we are human beings and not human doings.
    Having a relationship with God which is intimate will make me to have church in myself rather than bring me to church.
    Christ in you the hope of glory. Christ becomes a part of my being. that’s glorious enough for me. its all I need. the rest will either follow or fall out.
    has it ever occurred that in Eden man did not pray but talked to God.

  • Jamie Jamie says:

    Hi Kim, As I replied to Dalton, it really depends on what a person believes about God. If a person believes in a god or gods who created the universe but does not interfere in the natural process of of the universe, that would be called deism. If a person believes in a god or gods who is Creator and is actively involved in the affairs of the universe, that is called theism. If a person believes in just one god that would be a monotheist. If a person believes in many different gods that is called polytheism. If a person believes that god exists within everything that would be a pantheist. If a person believes in two deities which represent opposing forces (good/evil, ying/yang) that is called dualism. If a person believes that humans are gods they would be called a non-theist. If a person believes that they are God they would be called crazy :)

    Are you trying to define a label for yourself or for someone you know? Why do you think it is important to have a label?

  • Kim says:

    Dalton says:
    March 27, 2017 at 6:10 pm
    If I believe in God, but have no religion, what am I supposed to be called?

    Sorry. But i’m only here because of this. ^

    I’ve read your respond to Dalton. BUT you didn’t answer his/her question. So I would like to ask if you don’t know? Because the “It does matter”. There are atheists, theists, deists, monotheists, etc. I’m looking for the right word or name for those people who believed in God but have no religions. I don’t know what they called. So if you DO know.. Please give us the answer. Thank you.

  • Kadeem Bilal says:

    When I was born my mom and grand mother took me to church every Sunday and sometimes days other like Monday or Wednesday. I learned alot about God being my true creator but yet I felt a connection with God but did not feel wright were I was when I reached 17 I finally decided to get closer to God and go to church on my own and choose be with on church in Jackson Mississippi I stopped going after a while because I felt being forced into something that didn’t seem wright at 22 years old I was depressed and stressed out so I did research on sins and found the seven deadly sins i saw sins that I did that i didn’t know were sins like anger or when i would talk trash on others for being who they are but I was confused because I don’t still kill rape or hate and i learned that biggest sin I did was pride I was shocked and I also learned that now all religions and church’s are now based on pride I learned from a friend in my neighbor hood he had been to jail before and got close to God inside a prison he told me I didn’t have to be in a church to surrender my soul to God I askedd since I have a muslim name does that make me muslim do i have to be one he told me now thats your name he then say anyone can be in a religion or culture but a true relationship with God comes with inside me and why I was mostly on comfortable in religions or church’s I began to see how far I had falling to at my breaking point I got on my knees and surrendered my soul to God and said I give up its not about me your not here to give me what i want you no whats best for me and said God I am yours when I did what I did I was a hole new man God has blessed me so much I have a great job at Walmart, I have my GED, I do something I love which is martial arts, and i have God is still blessing me every single day in ways I don’t understand but I don’t want to understand or question what god does. I never went back to church, claimed a religion, or culture at that same time I be sure not to commit the deadly sins I finally saw how much GOD loves me and I discovered that outside religion, church, or culture I’m just a humble man and it feels so good GOD is awesome

  • Elkay says:

    Randy, what you said is an interesting and unusual expression of belief in a “true Father”. I grew up with National Geographic and one day, it struck me that Paul really knew what he was talking about in Romans 1:20, how nature testifies to the one true Godhead. Based on how He has revealed Himself, in nature, history and Scripture, I have concluded that it is only rational to trust God, who calls Himself “I AM” that you mentioned, as the sovereign, transcendent and personal God who has made the universe, including us, His image-bearers.

    Our misery lies in our rebellion, our alienation from God, which, despite His forbearance. attracts His implacable wrath. But God, precisely because love is of the very essence of His character, takes the initiative and prepared for the coming of His own Son by raising up a people who, by covenantal stipulations, temple worship, systems of sacrifice and of priesthood, by kings and by prophets, are taught something of what God is planning and what He expects. In the fullness of time, His Son comes and takes on human nature. He comes not, in the first instance, to judge but to save: He dies the death of His people, rises from the grave and, in returning to His heavenly Father, bequeaths the Holy Spirit as the down payment and guarantee of the ultimate gift He has secured for them—an eternity of bliss in the presence of God Himself, in a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. What men and women must do, before it is too late, is repent and trust Christ; the alternative is to disobey the gospel.

    The “gospel” being the good news that through Christ the power of God’s kingdom has entered history to renew the whole world. When we believe and rely on Jesus’ work and record (rather than ours) for our relationship to God, that kingdom power comes upon us and begins to work through us. Through the person and work of Jesus Christ, God fully accomplishes salvation for us, rescuing us from judgment for sin into fellowship with him, and then restores the creation in which we can enjoy our new life together with Him forever.

    This is what it truly means in your words to ” rediscover our true selves who were born with a sense of awareness of “I AM”.

  • Randy says:

    I see the Bible as a historical reference (some of the old testament and new testament stories can be verified through archaeology) and a means to help people to discern the truth by practicing honesty and renewing their minds by rediscovering their true selves that was born with a sense of awareness or “I AM”. The true father gives up part of himself so we can be part of his family and is eternal due to the paradoxial condition of the void, it exists only as the absence of existence, and draws it’s life energy from the void and is equal and opposite to the void. The true father and the Holy Ghost or remnant of what was are one and the same and the begotten children are the Christ or Spirit of Light and the Spirit of Darkness or the Babylon Whore of the bible.

  • Jamie Jamie says:

    It is not the label that is important Dalton. God doesn’t recognize you because of what you call yourself or are called by other people, but rather by your willingness to follow His plan for your life. So when you say you believe in God, what do you mean? I believe that people are able to climb to the top Mount Everest, but you wouldn’t catch me strapping on a backpack to make a summit attempt. Belief that there is a God does not mean that there is a relationship. How do you know that who you identify as ‘God’ actually is the Almighty Creator of the Universe? There are lots of different ideas about who God is, and even more different are people’s ideas of how to be in a relationship with Him. So what do you believe?

  • Dalton says:

    If I believe in God, but have no religion, what am I supposed to be called?

  • Jamie Jamie says:

    Thanks for sharing your experiences Ron. I respect the many years that you have walked with Jesus and followed Him into serving the needs of others. I agree that the infinite nature of God means that there is much about Him that I will discover throughout all of eternity as He takes me deeper into relationship with Him. There are limitless facets to the beauty of His character and it is a joy and privilege to be welcomed into experiencing His mercies in a new way every day.

    But I am also aware that we have enemies whose expertise is to take the truth of God and give it a twist, and that as I fall into those deceptions they will lead me farther away from God all the time. Part of the beauty of God’s plan is to provide His truth in a written form that He has preserved through the ages so that we can measure everything we hear in order to evaluate if it is from Him or if it is a lie. When you start ‘re-writing’ the history of Adam and changing the way the Bible describes the Fall, that is a warning signal that something is amiss. Your description of Adam becoming bored with God prior to the creation of Eve, their encounter with the serpent in the Garden, and their subsequent rebellion against God, does not match the account in scripture, nor does it match the way that event is interpreted by other biblical authors. If that ‘insight’ has come to you through your encounters with the ‘Uncreated Light’ I would question whether that encounter was with God or some other spiritual being whose intent was deception rather than revealing truth.

    One question that I think is useful to prayerfully work through is, “Am I chasing the spiritual experiences that can come through a deep relationship with Jesus, or am I chasing after Jesus Himself?” I have encountered some individuals who had been blessed by an amazing encounter with Jesus which had a profound impact on their lives. But as time went on their focus became less on the connection with Jesus, and more on the sensations that encounter created. I fully believe that those sensations can be copied by our enemy and he will gladly use that subtle twist of emphasis to draw us down a path that leads us away from Jesus. My study of church history also supports that: many charismatic movements have begun well, but they have also led to excesses that lost the first love for Jesus and replaced it with a love for the ‘experience’.

  • Tom Tom says:

    Here’s an interesting review of “Celebration of Discipline,” spiritual light, etc., many of the topics being discussed:

  • Ron Kazmierczak says:

    Sorry for rambling on so much about my life experience. But so far I’ve seen this happen to only five other people, and they only experience it once or twice. But when I see it happen its absolutely surreal. I remember it happening to someone and lasted an hour and a half. She saying, “you were right… everything is perfect.” She was staring right past people in a daze, saying the colors are all different and it feels like she has one foot in each world. I know these are strange things to say, but I am a witness an report what I’ve seen and heard. I know these things happened.

    Only one other person I know of continued in it. He has become one of the kindest most moral people I’ve ever known, and continues to grow more like Jesus every day.

  • Ron Kazmierczak says:

    Jamie, thanks for your response. I very much appreciate your sound doctrine and I do agree with you on your reply. Sin separates us from God, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus. These things are immutable , unchangeable, absolute tenants of our faith. But my prespective is a little different. Its like looking at the diamond from another facet. Let me tell you why (I hope you don’t mind my wordiness).

    I’ve been well educated by Tommy Reid in Full Gospel Tabernacle in New York most of my life. I attended Elim Bible Institute and was a missionary Through Youth with a Mission. I would happily have continued serving God that way my whole life, occasionally seeing answers to prayer, tithing, and continuing life like everyone else. However, Tommy Reid inspired many people to reach out and find what dream God placed inside you and fulfill it. One of the members of my church started healing services, just starting out. Benny Hinn. I was skeptical. I remember when I was 15 years old, I was on the right side of the sanctuary with my dad standing next to me, 11th row. Benn Hinn said something and the entire first row went down, second , third. I clutched the pew in front of me, I was not going down. When my eyes opened I was looking up at the ceiling on my back, my dad was on the pew in an awkward position. I remember the feeling distinctly. The colors were brighter, joy flowing through me, absolute sense of purpose. I then knew that no matter what else happens in life I absolutely must have this.

    Shortly afterward one of the pastors (Dr. Mark Virkler) who was teaching a bible class called “The Celebration of Discipline” (which I was in) came over and handed me a book called “Centering Prayer”. He said that he would not give that book to anyone but me. So I read it with great interest. It spoke about a form of prayer that has been around since the 3rd century ad up until about 100 years ago. It spoke of meditating, lowering your heart rate, quieting your thoughts, and leaning toward God knowing that He would not let you fall. It’s like a trust fall, in a way very similar to death. All that you are is silenced, deep inside you are filled with love for God and longing to know Him. You are concerned that no evil takes advantage of this weakness, but God who knows the deepest part of you will be your fortress. And in the words of Jacob, “I will not let you go until you bless me.”

    So every day for two months I got home from school and went into the back of my closet and silently sought God for at least two hours a day. I worked through my motives, my sin, my weakness, and told God I will not leave.

    There are moments in your life that you remember forever, like where you where when the world trade center was destroyed, or when the space shuttle crashed. I was in my closet and suddenly something very deep inside connected to a power source so ridiculously strong I was absolutely stunned. It lasted for less than a second. It was like an atomic bomb of absolute joy, a feeling that the world is perfect, warmth, love, it was like being an unborn child inside of God, perfectly protected. Then it gradually went away. It was like what I experienced at the Benny Hinn meeting but much, much more powerful and personal. It was like seeing the world from inside of God.

    I kept trying to get it back, I can’t tell you the agony and sorrow of thinking it would never happen again. A month later it did, and more powerful, lasting a few seconds. That was 35 years ago, now I spend almost every waking moment in His presence. What used to feel like a candle who’s flame I would carefully protect from the wind, now feels like a blast furnace.

    This has become fire shut up in my bones. I’ve kept this to myself for too many years. So now at age 50 I’m going to speak about it to anyone who will listen. If anyone would like to read more about this experience I know Jeremiah Denton (the hero from the Vietnam war) spoke about it happening to him in a prison camp. The book, “Centering Prayer” by M. Basil Pennington is a good place to start. There is a book called, “The Cloude of Unknowing” you can Google it and it’s available on PDF. Also there is a set of four books called, “The Philokalia” which is an account of this experience over 1000 years, they called it Uncreated Light.

  • Jamie Jamie says:

    Hi Ron, those are some interesting ideas you are proposing. I am just not sure that they measure up with how the Bible presents the broken relationship between God and humanity. It would seem like you are suggesting that God did not intend to create a woman, and that somehow a male human would be able to fulfill the call of God on humanity to “be fruitful and multiply and fill the Earth” (Genesis 1:28) all on his own. I think your position also implies that Adam had already sinned against God prior to the encounter with the serpent at the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. We know that it is our sin that brings separation between humanity and God based on countless verses like Isaiah 59:2 “your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden His face from you”, so for Adam to be ‘bored’ with God suggests that the separation had already occurred. That does not line up with what the rest of the Bible identifies as the Fall of humanity.

    It seems to me that you are trying to identify what is so sinful about eating a piece of fruit from the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. It was anything but superficial and irrelevant. We find the answer in the lie told to the woman: the serpent said, “For God knows that when you eat of the fruit of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:5) Whether the fruit is symbolic here or was part of an actual plant is not as important as the idea behind the fruit: it was the path of questioning the goodness of God and a rebellion against His authority in the universe. Obviously Adam and his wife could not be like God in His unlimited power, His unlimited knowledge, or His unbounded presence. The only way that they could be like God is to be independent of Him as their own authority. Paul affirmed that understanding in his description of the human condition when he wrote, “For although they [humanity] knew God, they did not honour Him as God or give thanks to Him…claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man…they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator” (Romans 1:21-23,25)

    That is still humanity’s heart towards God: a heart of independence that declares “I don’t need You!” We want to establish our own morality, make our own explanation for our existence, determine our own destiny, rather than acknowledge that God is the source of our life and we are responsible to Him. We have created all manner of religions that attempt to deal with the separation between us and God in our own way. We develop worldviews that claim there is no God, that Nature has created itself.

    And because we have rebelled against God’s authority in our lives we have separated ourselves from Him who is the source of life and everything that is good. That is why God said, “in the day that you eat of [the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil] you will surely die.” (Genesis 2:17) Ever since that day, humanity has been separated from the source of life and destined to be separated from Him for all of eternity. Our only hope is for God to rescue us, to pay the penalty for our rebellion against Him, and restore us into His presence. That is what Jesus did when He died: He took all of our sin upon Himself and paid our penalty by dying in our place. As God, He was without limits so His sacrifice was sufficient to deal with the sin of the whole world. He then rose from the dead and now lives to lead us into living a life that honours God, rather than rebels against God. He doesn’t force that on anyone but offers it to all who would receive it and put their trust in Him.

    Is that how you understand the role of Jesus as well Ron?

  • Ron Kazmierczak says:

    I believe the bible is perfect, but it is not all truth. The bible gives the instructions of how to reconnect to God. Once you do then truth comes pouring in.

    Its like the instruction manual of how to connect your device to the Internet. Once connected huge amounts of data flow back and forth.

    I believe that God is far deeper in His understanding and far more advanced in morality than we think. For example, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God laid out His rule plainly. What He was looking for, I believe, had nothing to do with eating from a tree. It was a tiny rule, superficial, and in the larger scheme of things, irrelevant.

    Let me back up one step. God creates Adam to be in love with God. Adam gets bored with God. God cares for Adam so much that He brings many created beings to him so he can name them, Adam is alone. God says, “It is not good for man to be alone”. Adam has no interest in God, but God wants Adam to be happy even if its not with Him. So What does Adam love most? Himself! God splits Adam in half, makes a few slight differences in the new version, and presents Eve to Adam. What do you know, Adam falls in love with himself (for a while).

    Now God (even though He knows the truth) wants to test to see if there is any love in Adam’s heart. Is he like his creator? He creates a test. The initial result is irrelevant, whats important is what comes next. Adam throws Eve under the bus. There is no love in him. Adam is a monster, he must be thrown out. The apple is not what mattered.

  • Judith says:

    I believe in God. I believe that I am a sinner, but that God loves me anyway. I believe that Mary is the mother of Jesus; and that Jesus is the son of God. I do not believe that I need to worship either one. Neither of them are God.

    I believe that the Bible is man’s interpretation of God’s word. So many religions preach that homosexuality is against the Bible, yet early passages depict God as instructing man to rape.

  • Sharon says:

    to Marota religion is religion and with God it is a relationship Christians have with HIM. it is sad if people leave God out of the equation. sharon

  • Its is true. There is is huge difference between God and religion. In my view God is not religious. The mistake man (humans) made was to from religion to God or to find God only to leave God behind. Its so sad.

  • Ron, You use the term ‘uncreated light’. Is it likely that this is what I termed the Creators energy and applicable to ‘life force’. In scriptures, there are two original spelling; both were interpreted as fire. One of these was fire and the other was energy. When used correctly, these scriptures make much more sense.

  • Ron Kazmierczak says:

    Aldo, its a pleasure speaking with you. I very much appreciate you taking the time to comment. Like it says in Proverbs, “Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed.”

    I was unable to click on that link. And because you took the time to discuss this with me, I will gladly read all of it.

    I’m not sure if you’ve ever heard of the Philokalia. It is the chronicle of the desert fathers over 1200 years. And I thought I was alone in this experience. The Byzantine empire existed on uncreated light. It in their are, politics, every aspect of life. Even in war this mysterious weapon called greek fire would light up the sky, earth, and water. They said that the discipline of seeking the uncreated light always works, everytime. No man could hold a political office without the light, and everyone can tell. This is where the halo came from, its a depiction of the light experience (there is a famous one called “the gate”)

    While its important to listen to what Christian leader tell you, in this case I am going to stop backing down. I am going to raise this standard. If this is real and you know yet don’t pursue it you may be held responsible for the tens of thousands of souls that you could have influenced with the uncreated light. You know what this will do to a church? End careers. Everyone will hear God by themselves from the least to the greatest. The knowledge of God will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea.

    Please forgive me for sounding aggressive in this matter. But I believe that if churches would endorse this ministry would surge till there was nothing for them to do. Abortion would be ended. America would have revival.

    Yet churches categorically resist this. There would be no need for bible school, you would know right from the source. No one would need a mediator they each connect to God on their own. Deception would be impossible. Knowing what I know after 35 years of this, you need to be real careful to be sure your right on this issue.

    I say try it. What if a demon tries to deceive you? Good luck with that, demon. The can deceive the mind but can’t get anywhere near this. Its absolutely poison to them.

    I am going to make this my life’s work. I will teach a class on it. I’ve helped several people have this experience, I’m actually quite good at it.

    After saying all that, I want to reiterate, I appreciate you and your opinion. Its very refreshing.

  • Aldo says:

    Ron, I know that you have been carrying on conversations with Jamie, and I agree with you that his blogs are awesome. I have somehow gotten your latest blog to answer, and I will do my best to reply to it.

    Some years ago when I was receiving a booklet called The Banner from Pinecrest Bible Training Center, now called Bethany Bible Training Center, I read an article in it by a student named Gabriel Hoffman that I believe alludes to what you have just said in your blog. You can read it at this website:

    If you cannot access it from this communication, go to the Bethany Bible Training Center website, click on About Us, then on The Door to God’s Heart.

    I am sure you will enjoy and appreciate the article.

  • Ron Kazmierczak says:

    Jamie, thank you for your awesome reply. I can tell your doctrine is sound and your reasoning is accurate. I attended an assemblies of God church for most of my life. The pastoral staff was highly respected and also taught the bible school I went to. I was save and filled with the Holy spirit, I went to youth with a mission as a missionary. And I witnessed miracles. They were a wonder and strengthened my faith. But I always knew there was something more.

    My pastor spoke about the Jesus movement revival as revealing Jesus, the Charismatic movement revealing the Holy Spirit, but there would be one last revival, a revelation of the Father. The more I knew about God the more intense was the longing to know Him. Then when a pastor gave me the book, “centering prayer” it showed me how to meditate. I would turn off my mind in submission to God, and long for Him with an unquenchable hunger to know Him and to be connected.

    For two months I prayed in my closet hour after hour. I would deal with my sin, then my reasons for seeking him, was this selfish. I reasoned that my finding God could only help everyone around me. I would not let go until He blessed me. I remember every detail when it happened. There is no way to explain this experience, but you absolutely know this is God.

    After 35 years of this constant presence I have fallen deeper and deeper in love with Jesus. You absolutely can not sin in this state, you can even contrive an evil thought. For me the sin is allowing myself to slip from that state, only then am I vulnerable. This is the place the Lord has brought me to, He asks of me one thing, stay in the presence and be watchful.

    Before this experience happened to me I would have said exactly what you did. You’ve studied to show yourself approved and have a good heart and good motivation. So having experienced this for many years and knowing it or the treasure that I feel it is, the wisest thing I can do is to pray that God shares this experience with you. Like Gamaliel reasoned in the book of acts, if this is of human origin it will fail but if its from God it can not be stopped.

  • Jamie Jamie says:

    Hi Ron, I agree that our understanding of who God is needs to be held in an open hand, ready for His truth to change our misunderstandings or misplaced expectations. There are so many people convinced that they have the true understanding of who God is, and yet they contradict what someone else believes is true about God. It is logical then that either we can be deceived by ourselves or by an outside agent because contradictory beliefs cannot both be true. That fits my experience in life: I know that I have been misled by my own emotions and also by other people, so it does not surprise me to know that I can be wrong about my understandings of God.

    Now if God cares about us having an accurate understanding of who He is then we can expect that He would provide a way for us to know what that truth is. Since we humans can be misled by our own emotions and by outside agents, He would have to provide a way of communicating the truth so that it could not be corrupted by outside agents or by our unreliable feelings. In an earlier post you referred to an experience that some people have had that is sometimes called “Uncreated Light”. You described it as “The feeling of all pain leaving the body, absolute peace beyond any feeling they’ve known, feeling like you see the world from thousands of feet above and knowing that everything is perfect, electricity surging through your body, the sound of wind and thunder. Time feels like it stops, you know exactly who God is, and that empty space inside you has just found the part that fits perfectly.” How does one know that this experience was initiated by God? If there are malevolent spiritual beings whose nature is to deceive how could a person know that this was not a deception?

    I have some friends who have had experiences like you have described. They were invited into those experiences by a Spirit Guide who led them into all manner of supernatural experiences. After many years of such ecstatic experiences they were challenged to demand their Spirit Guide reveal their true identity and to their horror, discovered that this beautiful being who they had been trusting was actually a disguised evil spirit who had been deceiving them all along.

    It is my opinion that truth about God will be logically consistent, that it will be reflected in the reality we see around us, and will be fully grounded in an historical reality that can be confirmed. As I have explored many different worldviews, the one that always meets that criteria is the message of Jesus Christ. There is no other worldview that better explains where we have come from, what our purpose is, why we face struggle and heartache, and where our destiny lies. It is a message that is make sense from a logical point of view, it fits the human condition that we see, and is part of a verifiable history rather than just legend and myth.

    Does your worldview meet that criteria as well?

  • Ron Kazmierczak says:

    I personally think that knowing God without religion would mean that the world view that I’ve constructed throughout my life would have to give way to reality. If I believe that God’s name is Jehova but then I connect with Him and I’m told that I’m wrong then I must accept the reality of who He really is. If I believe something my whole life but am an honest truth seeker, then find the truth, I am then responsible for that truth. Its really not about us and our feelings, its about the God of truth and His standards.

  • Jamie Jamie says:

    Hi William, I am sorry if my questions were offensive. I am genuinely interested in better understanding your worldview. Admittedly, I find that the message of Jesus resonates best with me and I would need to be convinced that another worldview is a better explanation of God, the world, and humanity before I would be willing to accept another. That’s why I asked the questions; I am interested in better understanding your worldview. For me, a worldview needs to explain where we have come from, why we are here, and what our destiny is; and it needs to be logically consistent, and fit with what we observe around us. In trying to better understand your worldview I am trying to see how it fits these criteria. What was it about my questions that appeared to be pushing a religious agenda?

  • You folks tell me I have not communicated in a fashion that you like. I have been measured and reread all of my communications with you to be as precise I know how to be. If I write anything that does not completely, word for word, agree with your preconceived notions you pretend to be confused. I was hoping for an intelligent exchange on this site, but now I know it is only a scam to push your religious agenda. I forgive you, no problem.

  • Jamie Jamie says:

    Thanks William, I don’t think I understand your characterization of the Creator: you define ego as the opinion one has about himself, which to me sounds like self-awareness. Are you saying that the Creator is not self-aware, that He has no opinion of Himself?

    I am also a little confused on the idea that the Creator creates with no purpose. It would seem to me that the very act of creation implies purpose. Are you saying that the Creator has no purpose for Creation or that you are not aware of what that purpose is?

    And let me clarify your understanding of human essence: a human essence is created and at death remains an individual essence. I think initially I understood your description of human essence as an emanation from the Creator’s essence which then returns to be one with the Creator. But from your last post it would seem like the human essence remains a unique individual, is that correct?

  • Jamie, These are refreshing questions, I hope they are sincere. Not the Freudian Id, but ego, meaning the opinion that one has about himself. Human ego, desires and property are not something that the Creator has because he is not human. He is void of ownership and desire, these are human characteristics.

    The Creator is infinite power and energy, unlimited love, unconditional love, and endless creation. In his presence I felt extreme humility that brought me to my knees and then I was overwhelmed with powerful love and a feeling I was home He has no human characteristics or needs and no special purpose for human beings other than a host for an essence that needs to be purified. In the system of things, when a new human live is created an essence enters the human body.

    Under meditation I never witnessed birth. I have witnessed death; not my own. I was given the understanding that upon death every human essence is made totally aware of everything that transpired through its human life span. Every instance of the human life was viewed through the eyes of GOD. At the end of this period, some taking a very short time and others taking a very long time because it was always gentle and loving, the spirit would know its place in the afterlife and move on. I could not pass this step. I gained no knowledge as to any special purpose or ultimate goal for the human race. Given the emphasis on the essence, there doesn’t really seem to be one. I have so much more to learn.

    This I know for certain, I will spend the limited time I have left in preparing my essence for departure from this earth. I will practice at giving unconditional love and forgiveness for all of GOD’s creations. As a human I will fail, but tomorrow I will be a better person and essence than I am today.

  • Tom Tom says:

    William Goodenough–

    My apologies for mistaking your given name for a mere post name. I believe it was an honest mistake given the ongoing discussion and the somewhat uncommonness of it. Do you happen to know what the origin of your name is?

    Also, you were correct that you had already answered one of the questions. It’s a little confusing writing to two people at once.

    Jamie, who has joined the conversation, brings up some interesting thoughts. I’ll look forward to your response.

  • Tom Tom says:

    correction to Phil–
    “They’ve NEVER had a failure . . .” I.e. the parachutes.

  • Tom, You said “From what you have written and state to believe, I have great concern that you do not have a right relationship with God.” You have expressed no reasoning that would suggest I should care what your ‘holier than thou attitude’ is toward my relationship with GOD. You said “You admit that you cannot know what will happen when you die.” I told you exactly what happens when you die, I guess you chose to blank it out.

    You said “On what do you base any of what you believe? What’s your foundation?” My basis is years of studies and my personal, deep relationship with GOD. That is akin to your relationship with the bible and following a scriptures generated Jesus. During transcendental meditation GOD transmitted his reality; therefore, I don’t base my faith or ancient beliefs, I base it on learning and witnessed events. No, it was not the devil.

    You have changed ‘being one with the Creator (GOD)’ to a futile attempt to be good. You might try to understand the difference. Insults to my given name are not necessary. Respect for other people is part of the package.

  • Jamie Jamie says:

    Hi Guys, I hope you don’t mind me stepping into your conversation. William I am interested in your description of the ultimate goal for humanity. Are you suggesting that human ego (are you using the Freudian definition of ego here or the more colloquial idea of self-centredness), desires and property are not something that the Creator has? If the Creator did indeed create then wouldn’t He (I am using the generic pronoun here) have ownership over what He created? Does the Creator desire that we transfer our essence back to Him? Doesn’t having a purpose require a desire to accomplish some end?

    I am also interested in the idea of ‘returning to the Creator’ or ‘transferring our essence back to the Creator’. Are you suggesting that we once already had our essence as part of the Creator? Were we individual essences or a part of the essence of the Creator? What happened that we became individual essences that needed to return?

  • Tom Tom says:

    I agree it doesn’t take a “religion” to understand. But it takes some sort of foundation on which to build one’s beliefs.

    For example, if what you believe it takes to be right with God (whoever you perceive God to be), contradicts what I believe it takes, then we can’t both be right. Either one is wrong or both are wrong. So is it not logical to ask why someone believes the way they do? And isn’t also logical to expect the person to have some evidence for what they believe? If not, then all is arbitrariness.

    If we’re on a falling airplane together, we’ll probably both want to live. I turn to you and say, ” Let’s put these parachutes on. My dad works in the factory that made them, and they’ve had a failure with them protecting the person who has to use one.” You respond, “Oh, no, I don’t believe in parachutes. I’ve come to believe that if I jump real high when I exit the plane and flap my arms really fast, I will not be hurt.” At this point, you have a contradiction. The question is, is one person right?

    So I pull out some FAA testing materials showing the validity of using the parachute, while you pull out some pretty pictures of butterflies and birds. I’m giving hard evidence while you are not.

    William Goodenough brings in one other aspect to my little scenario. Based on his last response, if the captain of the plane announced it was going to crash, he would be unafraid of any consequences–“I really don’t know what will happen when I hit the ground at 120 MPH”–so there is little concern for whoever is right, wrong, or indifferent.

    I don’t base my faith or beliefs on things I’ve seemingly discovered for myself over time. I do not base my faith on a religion. I base my faith and beliefs on the parachute guide-book, the Bible, which has great evidence for its validity and worthiness.

  • Tom Tom says:

    William Goodenough–

    From what you have written and state to believe, I have great concern that you do not have a right relationship with God, nor do you desire to get there other than through your own good works. You admit that you cannot know what will happen when you die.

    Because I have been born again spiritually through the Holy Spirit of God, and because I have a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, the only one through whom we can know God and be with him forever, my greatest desire in live is let others know about this.

    God does not like religion any more than you do, because it is man’s attempts to save themselves from sin. Once you have sinned against an infinitely Holy God, only an infinite, Holy Sacrifice will atone for those sins. You cannot do; Jesus could and did.

    You may immediately toss out all of this because you may see all of it as simply “religion.” In this case based on the Bible. The solid evidence is there. But that at least gives me a foundation from which to begin my spiritual journey. On what do you base any of what you believe? What’s your foundation?

    This is MY point of the conversation. If you’re not interested, so be it. Join all the billions of other who are diligently striving via their own attempts to be good. Your posting name reflects as much. Thanks for reading.

  • Sorry Phil, my last comment was for Tom.

  • Tom, This is a question every individual asks and the religious institutions try to answer. It is answered with spirit, holy ghost, several GODs (the devil), mysticism, and others imagining or searching scriptures to understand what the afterlife might be like. At the time of human death your essence is transferred back to the Creator. Void of human ego, desires and property; the ultimate goal is that your essence becomes one with your Creator. As we become closer to achieving this goal and return to the Creator at the end of our human life, the depth of the love, joy, and the feeling of wellbeing are so great that they are unimaginable as a human being. The lack of this relationship is not a punishment, but a absence of fulfillment; an absence of the glory of GOD.

    Tom, what is your intent for this discussion?

  • Sorry Phil, this last entry was for Tom.

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