How Can I Have Faith After Losing My Son?

Written by Christie Hoos

faith_havefaithI have never been a big fan of the “paste a smile on and pretend it’s okay” club.

In my case it was months after my son, Noah’s, death that I began to feel angry. I had to return to work and the crushing unfairness of it all began to sink in. I used to think that people of true faith accepted everything quietly and calmly, but now I’m not so sure.

I wrestled with God for several months.

My husband was afraid that he would never get his wife back. If anyone saw me walking in the woods behind our house they must have thought I was crazy — I was muttering, crying, even shouting at God. I read books in the bible that dealt with people who were suffering — Job, Psalms, Ecclesiastes and Lamentations — and was reassured that some of God’s favorite people were angry and confused by Him. The best advice I got was that giving God the silent treatment would only punish me. God can take it, so tell Him what you are feeling.

How can I have faith you ask? I’ll try to answer you as best I can. My husband is a scholar and he finds reassurance in philisophical arguements about truth, the state of the world and nature of God. I’ll admit that these truths are convincing and I would be happy to share some with you if you like, but in crisis my faith was not bolstered by academic points so I won’t get into them now.

First I must explain my faith to you, so that you know what I am choosing to rely on.

I do believe with my whole heart that God is good and the world is not. The bible is clear that because of our choices to reject God we live in a fallen world full of sickness, natural disasters, pain and death. This is not God’s purpose for humanity – he wants us to live with Him where there is no pain, no sadness, no death. In order to make this happen He made the greatest sacrifice, He sent His own son to die, to pay the price for our wrong choices (it is hard to imagine that He loves us so much that he would allow his son to die – on purpose). When Jesus rose from the dead three days later He destroyed forever the power of death over the human soul. Still, we must choose to accept or reject this gift. That is the faith I have.

I trust in Jesus to pay for my wrongs and to save me from death.

Especially since Noah’s death, this hope is my foundation. I know that one day I will see not only Jesus but my son again. I would rather he was with me, but since he is not I am so glad that he is safe and loved. For this reason I hold onto my faith. I even wrote a website all about this – Noah’s Place.

Not only that, but my faith in Jesus is about relationship. Like I said, I have been angry with Him. I will never be happy that my son is away from me (even temporarily). I miss him terribly. There is a hole in our family and in my heart that aches. But God does know how we feel. He lost His son too. And He has made it so clear to me that He loves me more than I can comprehend. This comfort did not come quickly or easily. Slowly, in so many ways – through reading the bible, praying (even angry and despairing prayers), through nature, through others around me — God put His arms around me and helped my broken heart to heal. He was there all along I just had to open up to Him.

To live without faith seems to me a hopeless, comfortless and pointless existence.

So I hold on, even when I don’t feel like it. This is how I have faith, not a feeling or an experience, but a decision. As Job said “though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him.” I can’t imagine life without Jesus. Holding onto faith has been a struggle, but to live without it, is unthinkable.

You have a choice to make also. Faith is not something you lose, it’s something you choose or reject. I’m sorry to say that anyone who has lost a child has a very long and hard journey ahead of them. Grief is exhausting, messy, and misunderstood. Anger and confusion are normal and healthy (only if you get stuck there for an extended amount of time will you need to worry and seek medical help). If you have lost a child, be patient with yourself, you are in mourning. Do not rely on your feelings to decide what you believe. Look ahead – what kind of life do you want? Who do you want to be?

I would not trade my Noah for a child that lived.

I would not have chosen this path, it has been hard and painful, but it has changed me for the better. I am forever grateful to my son for that.

In Love,
Christie
Noah’s Mom

If you have lost a child, know that you are not alone. I can’t tell you why you’re child is gone, but I can tell you that there is a God who loves you and who loves your child. He knows what it means to lose a son.

Are you struggling with a sadness that never seems to end? We are here to talk

612 Responses to “How Can I Have Faith After Losing My Son?”

  • I have removed Philip’s ability to engage in this discussion.

  • Patty Garcia says:

    Phillip , Get off this blog.. You keep silent until someone posts a comment. You have no clue about loss of a child.. Do us a flavor a keep your negative away from us. You have ruined this blog..

  • Cheryl says:

    One thing I forgot to add. The Gospel literally is translated “the good news” make sure you are hearing the true gospel.

  • Cheryl says:

    This will be my last response as I will be removing myself from this website. Tom you jump all over the place. I respond to Phillip and you think I’m condemming you. I say its about faith not sin to your post that makes it about sin but then you respond to me that its about faith as if thats not what i already just said.

    The rich young ruler came to Jesus wanting to know what he had to DO to get right with god he was focused on self. when we approach god like this He will give us the law because that is what we are asking for and we can not live up to the demands to be justified by law — why the law was given to show us our need for a savoir —the only one who could forfill the law.

    zachius on the other hand knew he was a sinner he wasnt looking for the law or how he could change or be a better person, he was simply trying to see Jesus. That was the invitation Jesus needed and He told Zachius “I’m coming to your house for dinner.” after Zachius spent time with Jesus Zachius heart was changed and he told Jesus he would pay back triple to any one he had stolen from. Jesus said salvation has come to this house.

    Salvation comes from beholding His glory it IS was changes people.

  • Sharon says:

    to Philip I think its ok to differ about job being real or not I think job is real and my criteria is based on the bible for being a serious reader I don’t know and for joseph prince is real or not I don’t know enough about him if he is real or not but not everyone likes all of tv evangelist anyhow there are differing opinions on that too. and of course not about forcing say my dogma on others and of course not for accusing people of serious religious crimes against humanity from our opinions my apologies if I did that to you. I never said anything about telling people that losing a child is not losing anything my heart breaks for people that lost a child to death I can cry for them I am deeply sorry for their loss. any death is tragic I have gone through people I know dying and my dad died four years ago from Alzheimer and my life has not been easy either even though I am a Christian. you have your opinions and I have mine lets just keep it that way– sharon

  • Tom Tom says:

    I’ve gotta hand you this one to you Philip. Ever since Paul and Barnabas split up over whether to include John Mark in their next missionary journey, man’s basic sinful nature has worked to damage the beauty and clearness of Christianity. Like everything in the once beautiful world, Satan has carefully manipulated, often even Godly people, to say and do things that are right out of hell. Different denominations and different doctrines have resulted in the lack of cohesiveness in the true Christian church today. The Bible speaks of such things. Many local churches are not strong because they let human differences overshadow Jesus. Jesus wrote 7 letters to some of the first century churches who were on the path of judgment. It’s an embarrassment and a shame and will be dealt with by our Lord one day. And yes, it’s kept many people from coming to Jesus.

    But even with such differences, Christ church has always stood tall and he continues to build his church today. More good has been done in the world as a result of people living the Christian life than by doing anything else. And while we know we are a messy looking family right now, one day soon Jesus will return to take us home and to take away all the imperfections. I’m regularly delighted to meet many people who work for the Lord in all points of the earth. They worship differently, they speak differently, they dress differently, but our one common denominator is we all love Jesus.

    (PS When I wrote “Job lost nothing,” I was speaking from the eternal viewpoint. Obviously, he lost just about everything he had on earth.)

  • Tom Tom says:

    Cheryl—
    Forgiveness of sins is a result of faith. “For by grace you have been saved, through FAITH . . .” And that is not simply faith that someone can heal you. If so, my doctor could forgive my sins. Lol So there are many different scenarios and different interactions between Jesus and the people, and surprisingly, very few just one-on-one with Jesus and another person. But when it came to witnessing of himself to someone, unless they already understood their sinful condition, he always pointed it out first.

    A couple of examples:
    –The Woman at the well. Jesus began the conversation talking of natural things—water. He then began to speak of spiritual things to “wet” her appetite for more. He then led the conversation so that the woman would have to admit she’d been living in sin.

    –The rich young ruler ran up to Jesus, fell to his knees, and asked, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Notice Jesus did not respond with evidence of who he was. He knew this man’s heart was not ready for the good news because he did not yet see the bad news. So Jesus tossed out some of the Ten Commandments to the guy which resulted in the man showing just how prideful he was. So Jesus told the man to sell everything he had and give it to the poor. The man was somewhat interested in eternal life, but he wasn’t willing to give up his temporal things. Notice that Jesus never got around to mentioning the gospel to the man.

    Jesus healed people physically with no indication they were born again. Jesus healed many both physically and spiritually because of their faith. But isn’t it interesting that even after so many miraculous signs of who he was, most people still did not believe.

  • Philip Koen says:

    Sharon- So it ok to differ whether Job’s story is a real or fictional story? This is a fundamentally difference. What criteria do you use to decide what is true and what not? GP said every serious reader of the Bible must know how to read the book of Job, all believers do obviously not read it the same, does that mean they are not serious readers? Do they even read the same Bible? What criteria must we use to decide who is false and who not? What is the verdict, is Joseph PrinceIs false or not? Is it ok to accuse others of forcing their dogma on others? Accusing people of serious religious crime against humanity with their opinions? It is ok to tell people that losing a child is not really losing anything? Tom: “Job lost nothing but gained much, most importantly a better perspective of the God he loved” I was attacked when people thought I said it, is it ok now that people know a believer said it?
    If a handful of believers can have so many opinions and differences how will the millions of believers out there cope? So much for absolute truth.How can you expect an unbeliever to take religion serious?

  • C says:

    Cheryl I am bowing out now of this conversation but before I do I’d like to tell you some of the words I shared were the words of Jesus. You had nothing to say about them unless they were included in your accusation of me not being enlightened OR how they relate to prosperity gospel.

  • Sharon says:

    to Philip I think its ok to disagree on things like job and dogma as long as everyone thinks that the bible is true no matter what. not everyone has to agree on everything except that the bible is the TRUE word of God. I am soo sorry you don’t believe and I am sorry we make it sometimes easy for you not to believe just saying— Sharon

  • Sharon says:

    to Cheryl- I know I am not Tom but in mark 2 about the paralyzed man and in John 9 Jesus heals a blind man. hope this helps sharon

  • Cheryl says:

    Tom
    Could you give me a few examples of what you are talking about. ALmost all of those that Jesus healed He never addressed their sin just their faith. So which examples are you referring to?

  • Philip Koen says:

    Congratulations and thank you for proving my point about religion by rejecting my post where I pointed out how believers cannot agree on a simple thing. Some believe Job was a real person and others not, accusing each other of dogma etc. Some claim a pastor is false and some claim that he is not…

  • Tom Tom says:

    Cheryl—
    Realizing it is easy to “strain at gnats while swallowing camels,” it’s also important that we have a solid view of the Bible’s teachings.

    I don’t recall any of C’s comments that indicated she was sharing truth outside of the Spirit’s desire to inform, lead, and help. But when we basically eliminate anything from our conversations with lost people they might find offensive, intimidating, convicting, or even condemning, then we’re chopping off a very important part of gospel witnessing. Jesus didn’t have to beat up the woman at the well because she already knew she was a sinner. However, after Jesus forgave her, (and as you quoted elsewhere) he said, “Woman, go and sin no more.” There is a dramatic and significant connection between a sinner’s knowledge of their sin and their total disregard of it.

    Like C and like yourself, I desire to love my Christian brothers and sisters. But Galatians 6:1 informs Christians, “Brethren, if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.” I’ve studied false teachers at some length, and have talked with countless people who hold them in high honor. I do so because there are going to be many, Jesus said, who will say “Lord Lord” but not enter the kingdom of heaven. Going down the wrong path is a very dangerous thing for a Christian, and many have been caught up in false doctrine and worldly teachings and become shipwrecked.

    Finally, while the beauty of Christ might lead the occasional person to repentance, it is most often when one sees their sinfulness and need of a savior that the beauty of Christ shines brightest. Unless he was speaking to someone who knew well the law of Moses, Jesus never just walked up to someone and said, “Believe in me and have eternal life.” He consistently in his witnessing encounters spoke of the person’s sins first, and after conviction was brought, he then told them of his grace. Shouldn’t Jesus be our example?

  • Philip Koen says:

    Job was not a real person, every Christian knows that. O no, Job was a real person, I know his family, address and bank account number. His children went to heaven, o no. they went to Disneyland… Joseph Prince is a pastor, no he is a false prophet…You commit a religious crime, you are dogmatic in your beliefs… Don’t be angry, o no, I am not angry. blha blha blha… It never ends. And believers expect others to respect their beliefs and not ridicule it. Are you serious? There is more objectivity in kindergarten than here.
    The only miracle here is that in the year 2016 there are still people who cling to illogical and unproven myths.

  • Cheryl says:

    C
    I’m not mad at all. I just believe you have to be carefull as to how you use scripture. You can quote truth but without the leading of the Spirit it can be used to beat people down instead of lifting them up.
    I think a good example of this is the woman caught in adultery. The crowd brought her before Jesus to see what He would do. Would He up hold truth and the scripture or would He have compassion.
    Jesus upheld both. He upheld what the scripture said that indeed she should be stoned to death for the sin but then He added that the one without sin should cast the first stone. And the all left one by one.
    Jesus was the only one there who could have stoned her to death and the only one there able to forgive her. He chose to forgive.
    John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
    If we give truth without grace I think we can condemn instead of inspiring people to go and sin no more.
    You sound like you are seriously zealous for GOD and I hope He will enlighten you. As believers we should encourage each other in the faith not insult each other because Jesus said that all men will know that you are my disciples that you have love for one another.
    As believers to unbelievers I believe we should be revealing Jesus to them. When they see the beauty of our LORD I believe this is what leads them to repentence.

  • C says:

    Sorry that came through twice

  • C says:

    In the first chapter of the book of Job, Job is introduced as a man from a specific location: the country of Uz. The book also goes into great detail about Job’s finances and family. While it is possible that these might simply be vivid details of a parable, such particulars were not common in ancient allegorical literature. The general way that Job, the man, is described suggests that this was a real person.

    Question: “Is the book of Job a true story or a parable/allegory?”

    The book of Job is one of the world’s oldest, most influential, and most powerfully written works of literature. Because it is very old and the book does not identify the author, there is no way to be entirely sure who wrote Job or exactly when it was written. Some theorize that the story of Job was recorded by Samuel, Moses, or an even earlier Hebrew author. The setting for the story itself is ancient, making no reference to the priesthood or temple sacrifices. The book is also written mostly in poetic form. As a result, some wonder if the book of Job is, in fact, a parable or allegory. Jesus often told parables, and in such stories the characters and situations are not assumed to be actual, but simply a means to make a point. Could the book of Job be non-literal, too?

    In the case of Job, there are several good reasons to interpret the book as historical rather than allegorical. These include the way in which Job is introduced, references to Job in the book of Ezekiel, and references to Job in the book of James.

    In the first chapter of the book of Job, Job is introduced as a man from a specific location: the country of Uz. The book also goes into great detail about Job’s finances and family. While it is possible that these might simply be vivid details of a parable, such particulars were not common in ancient allegorical literature. The general way that Job, the man, is described suggests that this was a real person.

    The Old Testament consistently refers to Job as though he were a real, historical person. In Ezekiel 14:14 and 20, God mentions Noah, Daniel, and Job as examples of righteousness. The context of this statement would not make sense if Job were merely a literary figure. The assumption of this text is that Job was as real as Noah and Daniel.
    The New Testament makes a similar reference to Job. In James 5:11 Job is mentioned as an example of spiritual endurance. Every other figure mentioned in the book of James is an actual, historical person, including Abraham, Rahab, and Elijah. As with Ezekiel’s reference to Job, James’ allusion makes the most sense if Job is an actual person whom we are to emulate.
    All in all, there is more evidence suggesting Job to be an account of history than a parable or allegory. Based on current information, we can’t say for sure when it was written or by whom. However, both internal and external evidence seem to suggest that Job is meant to be read as fact, not fiction. And the miracle in Jobs life was God.
    Jobs story is one of great hope and was provided to us quite possibly for our hope.

  • GP says:

    Tom

    Every serious reader of the Bible knows you cannot read the Book of Job like that. You are trying to force a story into your own dogmatic container. It won’t fit. You still commit a serious religious crime against humanity: an inability to have compassion with thise who suffer. Being correct is mire important for you than stanfing with those who suffer. And it reflects in your so called “truth.”

    The book of Job is fictional and is about God and human suffering. It drafts in a third force on human suffering: evil personified through the character of the Satan. It is about different points of views on suffering and must be read like a theatre play where there are different characters. The listeners will see and hear their own point of view when the different characters starts to defend and explain their views on why Gid allowed Job to suffer.

    Where on earth do you read that Job’s children went to heaven? Heaven has nothing to do with this great masterpiece of a story.

    You are cramming pastoral wisdom on suffering into “christ came to save us” dogma. Job was written and can be used to assist others in finding their OWN voice on God and their own suffering.

    In the end it is a miracle that Job did not leave God. It is also a miracle, that people can lose so much and still believe in God.

  • C says:

    Cheryl I do hope I provided a better understanding. I can sense that you are angry but I can assure you I am not.
    I don’t believe that Phillip or any other non believer can profit more from a television evangelist than by the Word of God itself, the Bible. Have a blessed evening

  • C says:

    Cheryl- “Take up your cross and follow Me” means being willing to die in order to follow Jesus. This is called “dying to self.” It’s a call to absolute surrender. After each time Jesus commanded cross bearing, He said, “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?” (Luke 9:24-25). Although the call is tough, the reward is matchless. Do you see the contrast in this Scripture and what the properity teachers teach you? In Luke 9:57-62, three people seemed willing to follow Jesus. When Jesus questioned them further, their commitment was half-hearted at best. They failed to count the cost of following Him. None was willing to take up his cross and crucify upon it his own interests.

  • C says:

    Cheryl- not necessary that you address me through Tom, but it’s fine if you are more comfortable.
    In a world tainted by sin, sickness, disease, and death will always be with us. We are fallen beings, with physical bodies prone to disease and illness. Some sickness is simply a result of the natural course of things in this world. I don’t believe if any of us become sick or diseased that it is because we are too weak in our faith and don’t ask the right way for healing. Prosperity gospel promotes idolatry, and is contrary to scripture. Remember the devil knows Scripture and has the ability to twist them into something they are not. Perhaps Joseph Prince believes the things he teaches but we must match up everything we are taught with Scripture.

    It was during the Healing Revivals of the 1950s that prosperity theology first came to prominence in the United States, although commentators have linked the origins of its theology to the New Thought movement which began in the 19th century. The prosperity teaching later figured prominently in the Word of Faith movement and 1980s televangelism. In the 1990s and 2000s, it was adopted by influential leaders in the Charismatic Movement

  • Cheryl says:

    1John 1:7
    But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, AND THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST HIS SON CLEANSES US FROM ALL SIN.

  • Cheryl says:

    Tom,
    first of all my comments to Phillip about some christians was not about you or implying you. I really don’t know what your so upset about. wow! The only mention of you is that Phillip said you were the one who used the word “nothing” not him.
    Second Joseph Prince is a Pastor. He doesn’t claim to be a profit and he literally uses more scripture than any other pastor i watch such as chuck swindol, charles stanley, james macdonald just to name a few.
    You sound like a solid christian so could you please help C understand what Jesus blood has done for us. I would address it but I do not think she will listen to me and she obviously will listen to you.
    She wrote–“Jesus did not clean us from sin and sickness. He forgave our sins, and He cleaned us from the influence of sin and sickness.”

  • C says:

    Yet here you are, the biggest one causing hardships on a thread such as this. You think too much of yourself Phillip. Move on. You haven’t changed anyone’s mind here about God.

  • Philip Koen says:

    And there we have it again, christians, believers etc accusing each other of being wrong or false! It never fails to happen. Christians are always explaining and telling people how this god business fits together but the moment that you ask a question they start to differ and call each other false but they expect others to believe and have respect for their religion.Add a little bit of analytical thinking and it becomes clear that it is fiction, nothing but the ideas of individuals that think they are right and their god is showing them the right way and the others are wrong. Why does’t God make things clear?
    It would have been laughable if it was not happening in a forum where people are struggling with so much pain.
    It is 2016, we are all more or less educated, isn’t it time we start to be more objective? How is it possible that people still base their lives on the writings of ancient sheep herders that obviously knew very little about how things really work?

  • C says:

    THese are usually christians responding out of their own selfishness to be heard or be right and some are well meaning but they are not led by the spirit of GOD instead they are led by their own carnal knowledge. –really Cheryl? How offensive can a person even be??
    You don’t even know me ma’am!

  • C says:

    Cheryl how do you know the people here who are commenting have never lost a loved one?

  • C says:

    Also I don’t ever hear people pronounce sin, sickness, poverty and death over me and I don’t know or have ever known in my life anyone who has.

  • C says:

    Cheryl Tom is right about Joseph Prince. He teaches hyper grace. An excerpt from one of his devotionals:
    “You see, as believers, when we received Jesus, His blood cleansed us from sin as well as sickness. (Isaiah 53:4–5) But we keep hearing people pronounce sin, sickness, poverty and death over us. We keep hearing people tell us that we are unclean, undeserving, poor, weak, and that it is only natural that we grow old and sickly, and die. God is waiting for a priesthood that will rise up and pronounce His people clean!”

    Jesus did not clean us from sin and sickness. He forgave our sins, and He cleaned us from the influence of sin and sickness. Only Jesus is free from sin and sickness. We won’t be free from sin and sickness until we receive our resurrected body at the rapture. That’s why we need the Holy Spirit now on earth, to help us resist sin. We are not free yet because we live in the same sinful flesh as we lived in when we were born and before we came into repentance and into Christ’s atoning kingdom. Philippians 1:29 reminds us that it has been granted to us to suffer. So does Peter in 1 Peter 4:12. There are many verses which remind us that it is our portion to suffer these things

    And another thing. The story of Job is one of hope. I’m sorry you don’t see it that way.

  • Tom Tom says:

    Cheryl—
    While it could be great that you and Philip seem to be finding some sort of common ground for conversation, it concerns me that many others who have used solid, biblical references to Philip have had them thrown in the mud and trampled. Is it just possible that some conversation is happening, because one of you is an atheist and the other sits under a known false pr0phet? Is it not possible the falsehoods of both of your teachings are meshing together on some level?

    You wrote, “I know Tom calls him a false profit (sic) and all kinds of things but you and Tom don’t agree on anything anyway.” It’s true Philip does not agree with anything I write, but does that make me wrong? I use the Bible as my text. Does Philip’s disagreement with me make Joseph Prince an anointed pr0phet, or prove that what I’ve pointed out about Prince isn’t true? An anointed pr0phet is one who always speaks the truth from scripture. Five minutes on the internet reveals how far from scripture Prince often strays. Anointing has nothing to do with how charismatic the teacher is. It has everything to do with how true to the Bible they remain.

    I’m just trying to offer you a word of caution, Cheryl. You say much about teachers who are self-centered and not Spirit-filled. I’ve seen many of those myself. But what are you using as a yardstick to measure their presentation? Is it how you personally feel after listening to them, or are you comparing them to the Bible?

    Finally, while not all preaching leaves a good taste in everyone’s mouth, or it gives the impression of “doing more harm than good,” how many of the religious leaders of Jesus’ day came from the synagogue raving about his wonderful sermons? None that I know of. Please walk carefully.

  • Cheryl says:

    Phillip,
    yes you are so correct some christians have told people things that they thought were good and in fact they did quite a lot of damage. THese are usually christians responding out of their own selfishness to be heard or be right and some are well meaning but they are not led by the spirit of GOD instead they are led by their own carnal knowledge. Believe me I have experienced this as well and it has cost me plenty.
    A lot of christians paint the wrong picture of GOD and offend many. I have sat under teachings that have done more harm than good. I really did not understand or know GOD well until I sat under annoited teachings.
    So many of the questions you ask about are well explained by Joseph Prince. I know Tom calls him a false profit and all kinds of things but you and Tom don’t agree on anything anyway. You can find his teachings on youtube. you can pull up the teaching on Job and I think you have brought up Noah and the Ark too. But most of all he explains GOD’s grace which i think so many christians don’t have a good understanding of. Anyway I would like to know what you think.
    I do think you care about people and you shouldn’t call your self a filthy atheist. I think GOD may have a great plan for you. I hope he reveals Himself to you. He could use you in amazing ways.

  • Philip Koen says:

    Cheryl: Not only christians must not say that Job lost nothing, NOBODY must tell a person in the deepest pain that, nobody, and that is why I always comment on Tom’s post because for him it seems it is more about the glorifying of his god than the real pain of others. Like I said before, this is why I get so worked up when people sprout this kind of nonsense, I have a lot of first hand experience with how believers who thought they were doing good did more harm than anything else with this kind of behaviour and careless phrases.
    I realise that a lot of people don’t like my comments or attitude but my intention is everything but to harm or hurt people even more while they are mourning the loss of a loved one. What I try to do is to get people to be more objective in situations like this. People in sorrow tend to be not all that objective and that is so much understandable, do not try and work on the emotions of those people with careless phrases etc. And I know my next statement will be seen as harsh by some but it is a fact: There are people who while they were in mourning felt so guilty because they felt they were wrong to doubt their God’s actions etc that they took their own lives. In a lot of those cases people who tried to “help” were actually attributing to the pain those people were going through. Don’t add to those people’s pain and sorrow by making them think that they are bad for doubting their religion, in their state of being very vulnerable just one word can plant a seed in their mind to make them feel that they are a bad person.
    I know most people here will find it hard to believe that a nonbeliever actually cares about others but I can assure that I do.

  • Cheryl says:

    Phillip,
    I’m sorry I missed it that you were quoting Tom.
    No certainly a Christian should not say job lost nothing. He lost everything, that is the point the lose is enormous. To call it nothing compared with GOD is an insult Because we don’t compare Jesus against nothing we measure Him up against everything and even up against everything He is greater. His love is the ONLY thing great than the lose, and believe me the lose is great!
    Jesus never refused healing to anyone and NEVER told any one when He was on earth that this death is for some really good reason or you should have this dieseas for awhile and I’ll come back in a few months and heal you after you get humbled.
    No Jesus healed everyone. And Jesus never turned a single sinner away. He did however rebuke the religious folks.
    Frankly I don’t think any of you are qualified to speak to people’s heartbrake over a lost child because you have never experiened it.
    Some may know about faith and scripture but we need to be extremely carefull when ministering to the broken hearted. The word should not be used as a sword on other believers but we should using it as ointment poured forth to help the broken heart heal.

  • Philip Koen says:

    Cheryl: I said that Job lost nothing? Please get somebody to slowly read and explain to you what I wrote. The next sentence in my comment was quoted from Tom’s comment: “Job lost nothing but gained much, most importantly a better perspective of the God he loved” Tom said it, not me, now go and tell him what you just told me, that he said it as if it is a trivial thing to lose a child. It is exactly because of things like this that I cannot stand this faith business, people watering down other people’s pain to try an glorify a fictional character. I saw too much harm done when people try to explain their god’s actions to people in sorrow, this is a classic example.
    Now please answer me this one question;, is it now less trivial that it is a god believer that wrote the sentence and not a filthy atheist?

  • Cheryl says:

    Phillip,
    You also asked me what I have gained and you say Job lost nothing but gained much as if it is a trivial thing to loose people you love, let alone your own flesh and blood. I can tell you that unless you have experienced the loss of a child you can not imagine the pain and heart ache. But I can tell you that the only thing greater than my loss and my heartache is GOD, THE FATHER, JESUS and the HOLY SPIRIT.
    My child is no longer with me and I can not give you the reasons for that, but one day I will know why. Knowing GOD intimately is the only love greater than the love I lost.
    I believe you have loss. I don’t know what exactly it is, but you can’t imagine the peace and love GOD has. I really hope you find it, you must be so miserable inside. It seems you are really looking, thats why you keep responding. Its not hard to receive. He really does love you, if you would just lay aside all your human reasoning and ask Jesus to come into your heart and save you, if you would just trust Him, He could change your whole life and you could have peace and joy you can not imagine.

  • Tom Tom says:

    B.C.–
    That is very good to hear!

    “I waited patiently for the Lord; And He inclined to me and heard my cry.
    He brought me up out of the pit of destruction, out of the miry clay,
    And He set my feet upon a rock making my footsteps firm.
    He put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise to our God;
    Many will see and fear And will trust in the Lord.
    How blessed is the man who has made the Lord his trust,
    And has not turned to the proud, nor to those who lapse into falsehood.” Ps. 40:1-4

    It would encourage many others if you were to occasionally post something of the progress through grief.

  • Cheryl says:

    Alfred,
    I would just like to gently remind you that B.C. has just experienced the most unimaginable loss ever so though Phillip brought up Job and we did go into discussion about it when speaking with B.C.and telling him its not about us at a time like this in his life seems like shallow and uncaring words. I’m not saying they are not true but believe me you can not imagine the pain of loosing a child and BC needs the love of GOD right now. Grace and Truth. Not just Truth. The word tells us to weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice. That is why Jesus wept.
    Job’s friends were telling Job the same thing “its not about you” when they should have just been comforting Job.
    The other thing I don’t know why you let Phillip on this forum with those who have lost children. These are deeply wounded people and the last thing they need are these deep seeded arguments. If Phillip wants to discuss God it should be on one of your other forums but not this one.
    Also, BC you may find themissfoundation forum very helpfull although it is not faith based it is only people who have lost children because only we can understand this kind of pain.

  • B.C says:

    Many thanks to all that tried to comfort me, it worked,

    ThankU All soooo much.

    After reading some negative comments, I realized that the enemy is everywhere, and I needed to continue to believe in what my Grandmother told me since I was 3 years old.
    Besides, something inside me tells me that God is real.
    Grand Mother told me to trust God always, that no matter where I was or where I went, He will always be there to lift me up if I fell.

    My Grandmother raise me , lived to be 107 loving, praying and worshiping God.
    I learned so much from that special lady that raised me, throughout all my life.
    Just like she went ahead of me, my little loved one also went ahead of me , and I know deep down in my heart that one day , many decades from today, I will reunite with them all, and it will be forever.

    Again, many yanks and many thanks to all for your support.
    Even the negatives comments made me realize that I should not fall behind.
    That I must continue to believe and worship our Abba Father.
    I’m still crying, but it is because I miss my loved one.
    I’m starting to feel God’s comfort and his wings embracing me, as I cuddle like a baby.

    May a God Bless all Abundantly and may you continue to grow strong in God, always encouraging others as you have encourage me.

    Shalom ,

    B.C

  • Alfred says:

    What an interesting discussion we have here! To BC I would say: It seems to me that we sometimes ask God as if He’s the errant boy to bring us whatever we want or need. The deeper truth is that “it is not about us.” Rather “It is about Him”, for He is building His Church and building our faith. I think we need to see how we fit into His picture, rather than how He fits into ours. Let’s remember that He is Sovereign. Yes we may ask, but He already knows our need, so why pray at all? Because PRAYER CHANGEWS US! The closer we can draw to God, the more we will worship Him, praise Him and thank Him! Job finally got the bigger picture when he said that it didn’t matter what happened to him as long he was in God’s hands. An interesting fact is that when we are in tune with Him we will ask what He would have us ask. For example, we may be inspired to ask for a gifting through which we can better serve our Lord Jesus.
    You say: “What about all the fasting I endured with a whole heart full of hope, for a whole month , praying , reading the Bible, giving generously, staying away for the media, tweeting about the Bible, giving hope to many in need of comfort , while not letting them know of my own pain.” We may never know how many people were helped by you (rather, how many people God was helping through you) during that time. HE may have found you useful more than you realized.
    I have found God to be my PROVIDER, giving me comfort, hope, or whatever I need. Then I need to ask forgiveness for the times of anxiety when I should have trusted Him sooner. For, whatever He provides will always be “in His good and perfect timing”.

  • Sharon says:

    TO BC my apologies it finished before I did. God loves you with an everlasting love. you are NOT alone ever if you believe in God HE is with you always. I have a feeling that you had a sense of fasting and praying before your child dies for God to keep you strong God knowing things will go for a downturn. that fasting and praying was NOT for nothing God always has a purpose for everything I will continue to pray for you. keep leaning on God HE is the author and finisher of your faith. sharon

  • Sharon says:

    to BC I will continue to pray Gods comfort on you as you grieve your loss. God does forgive you HE died for you

  • B.C says:

    I see how the enemy is still trying to kill what little hope I have.

    I’ve decided to take only 2 weeks off from my ministry.p, instead of the 2 months.

    Why give the devil any chance to rob me of what I love doing so much , as he did of my loved one.

    Last night I prayed to God to forgive me for doubting Him, I hope He forgives me.

    I know deep down that He does exist, it’s impossible to live in this world on our own thinking we are alone.

    There is got to be a strong powerful God somewhere , maybe right next to me now.

    I’m in so much dispair, but I’m going to chose to continue what little faith I have left.
    I’m going to keep on believing that , Yes, there’s an Abba Father.

    Blessings to all, and please keep me in your prayers.

    Reading some of the negative posts made me realize how deep I was falling.

    I do not want to fall lower. I want to go up and higher and higher.

    Do keep praying for me, and May God give all wisdom ??

  • Cheryl says:

    B.C.
    FIrst it is never GOD’s will that any one die an untimely death. Second we do not earn favor or right standing with GOD by doing anything. If we put any faith in any act that we do to earn right favor with GOD we have not understood that the only thing that earns us right standing with GOD is His son’s perfect obedience and His finished work on the cross. This is what pleases GOD. His Son will receive all the glory and is the only reason we can call GOD our father.
    Faith is knowing this, not trying to add to this.
    Jesus is returning for us, for believers. You will not be seperated from your loved one long but you must understand that it is only in Jesus sacrifice that we have right standing with GOD.
    Put your trust in Him and Him alone and call on Him to mend your broken heart. He cares greatly for you and your loved one and we will be reunited soon.

  • Cheryl says:

    Phillip,
    Yes Job was an upright man, yet in all of his human perfect way when he actually saw GOD in His Holiness and Glory he realized that the uprightness of man could not earn him righteoussness and therefore compared to all his goodness in light of Holliness it amounted to nothing.No one can do any amount of good to equal Holiness and Righteousness.
    It is something we can not fathom, the Holiness of God. Our best acts can not compared with a Holy God that is why righteousness and the right to be in relationship with a Holy God can not be earned.
    But GOD loved us so much that He gave His only Begotten Son that whosever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For GOD did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
    I know the carnal mind can not understand this story for all it sees is what devil took from Job but as hard as it is for you to comprhend, to see GOD and to know GOD is greater than the loss. The material blessings that Job recieved were nothing compared to this.
    Philip it seems you want to make GOD like a man or maybe your own ways or thinking to be GOD but GOD loves you more than you love yourself. I believe He is coming back soon and I hope that one day His love will penetrate your heart.

  • Regina says:

    I lost my son 2 yrs ago. If not for CHRIST I would not be here

  • C says:

    Tom- (and BC)
    I am sorry for my comments about Phillip. Your are right he is likely hurting and I have not read his story here and I don’t read much of his comments. I have trouble tolerating a person who causes another to stumble on purpose. Thank you Tom for all the time you put into this thread and the people who come here seeking godly counsel.

  • Janet says:

    Dearest Tom,
    I hope you are feeling better. I know that you are so kind and feel sorry for Phil..its nice that..you keep..trying..
    But if he doest want to listen right now..then you can keep trying but if he refuses..just know that you tried many times..but i think this site should be used for comforting the mourning..i am going to grief share..and i just need your prayers for strength ..i try to keep going..one day I will see my Nolan again..
    I have to keep going…its not my time..thank you Tom ..dont get discouraged
    about people that dont believe we believe..u can only do so much its up to them…they want to fight…you are above all that fighting…this is certainly not the place to do that we should encourage eachother…

  • Philip Koen says:

    Tom: God gave Satan permission to do what he wanted, hahaha. All Job’s people and animals were killed, by god or with god’s permission, so nice of god.
    So god was so good that he gave Job 11 more children and a multitude of grandchildren? Are you really so stupid to even mention that as an excuse for what Job went through?
    I now ask everybody on here who is grieving the loss of a child: Will 11 more children ease your pain? Will a multitude of grandchildren make the pain of one lost child better? Tom says you lost nothing, you all gained a lot. Tom: “Job lost nothing but gained much, most importantly a better perspective of the God he loved” Bc,Cheryl, Janet? Do you feel that you gained?

  • Tom Tom says:

    That’s the same question you asked 6 months ago. Have you already forgotten the answer I posted? Maybe you ignore rational answers? Go back through the posts and find the answer. Do your own homework.

    And by the way; if you’re going to keep on blaspheming God and his word, how about at least getting the facts straight? God did not “kill everything and everybody that were close to Job.” In response to Satan’s direct request to harm Job to prove a point, God gave Satan permission to do what he wanted short of killing Job. And God didn’t give Job “a lot of donkeys for the loss of all the people.” God replaced two-fold everything Satan had taken from Job, thus giving Job a double-blessing.

    Job was a righteous man and his children were righteous. Therefore, Job’s children immediately went to heaven upon their deaths. Job understood God’s sovereignty and evidenced this by his stating, “The Lord gives and the Lord takes away.” He also told his wife, “Shall we praise God for the good and not the bad?” In these things, Job had it right and understood. While Job had every reason to mourn the deaths of his children, he knew he would see them again in heaven. But God even gave Job 11 more children and a multitude of grand and great grandchildren to enjoy over the many more years he lived. In the end, Job lost nothing but gained much, most importantly a better perspective of the God he loved.

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