Can You Connect to God Without Religion?
Is there a difference between God and Religion? There is definitely a difference between God and religion. God is someone I have a relationship with. My view on God can be altered by many factors in my life. It can be affected by my relationship with my own father or even by my culture and the people I spend time with.
I see religion is a set of beliefs that have guidelines for behavior associated with them. There are many religions with many differing beliefs and rules. I don’t think God needs religion. He wants to have a relationship with me. It is so easy for me to get confused and think that my relationship with him has rules of engagement. I love knowing that God cares about me and that my relationship with him does not need a lot of order and structure. I want to participate in religion or church to celebrate his holiness, but it’s not a condition of knowing God. Do you believe you can you connect to God without religion?
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Oh I see. I thought you meant when we die we go home to God for eternity, but you mean that we go home until we get another chance to live life again. Is that so we have a chance to improve on how we have done in past lives? Would you say our choices in past lives impact on what we face in this and future lives?
I am not sure what you mean by your question about God putting us to sleep. Are you referring to the time between our death and the resurrection at the final judgement? The Bible does not teach soul sleep but that those who have put their trust in Jesus are immediately brought into the presence of Jesus. Jesus told the parable of a rich man and Lazarus, where the rich man went to Hell (Jesus used the name Hades) and Lazarus went to dwell with Abraham. Now there are details about all this that are not given but it can be definitely determined that death does not bring on a soul sleep. However, at the final judgement those who are trusting in Jesus’ death to pay the penalty for their sin are given new physical bodies and those who are dealing with their crimes against God on their own will be sent to the place prepared for Satan and his followers.
In your study of different religions and worldviews, it sounds like you pick out those things that make the most sense to you. What gives you the confidence that you are choosing what is right and not just what is most convenient for you? Is there some standard that you use to determine the truth? I know in my own life I am more prone to pick the things that are most comfortable for me even if they are not the best for me. How do you guard yourself against that tendency?
Hi Jamie,
Well I believe in Reincarnation so I guess I would say a little from Hinduism, Buddhism and wicca (I don’t believe we can be animals though) And the writings of neale donald walsch, who I guess you would say is blaspheming. The Bahai faith also teaches hell is just separation from God and when sinners die they still get to experience God’s love- just on the outskirts.
But why would God create us to exist forever but put us to sleep for hundreds and thousands of years? That doesn’t sound like eternity to me.
Different religions are still interesting, including Christianity which I get a lot out of.
June 21, 2015 at 5:48 am
Seon–
“Actually no one tortures people in hell. Hell is simply what it is–the complete absence of anything having to do with God. People choose to go there by denying Jesus Christ.”
I’m horrified someone would change their mind in the space of a month. Of course Jesus spoke of hell and people burning in the eternal fire- there is no denying this if you actually read the gospels.
As discussed I don’t believe God will raise our bodies from the dead, I believe when we die our souls continue to exist and we don’t need bodies or heaven on Earth.
Seon–
Just to set the record straight, I absolutely believe in an eternal hell–a place of torment, suffering, and anguish. I believe it because Jesus taught it. He spoke more about hell than about heaven. I don’t know where you got the idea I was trying to “sugar coat” anything. In fact I am HORRIFIED that someone like you who doesn’t believe in the God of the Bible or Jesus Christ who paid for your sins will go to hell because of your unbelief.
The idea of eternal suffering is a difficult concept to accept, but I have to acknowledge that God is an infinitely more moral, just, loving being than I am and He can see an infinitely larger perspective than I can. So I can trust that He is doing what is right and good. To suggest that I could come up with a better solution is like a slug trying to tell me how best to care for my garden.
Your question about why not allow those destined to Hell just cease to exist is a fair question but I think it fails to recognize how God has created us. We have been made to enjoy relationship with God forever; that is God’s purpose for us. Just because we choose not to engage in that relationship doesn’t change the fact that we will go on existing for all of eternity.
I am curious where you get the idea that when this life is over we just go home? Is that a teaching from one of the religions that you have studied? I am trying to think which one that would be an come up with a blank.
Exactly Jamie, Christians like Tom try to sugar coat it but Jesus also taught about hell so if you’re a Christian you have to believe in heaven or hell. I still believe when we die we go home but I do see your perspective.
I just find it hard to believe god will resserect our bodies just to cause us pain and suffering. If the resserect ion of the dead really happened why can’t god just not resserect souls destined for hell?
Hi Seon, here’s what I understand the Bible to say about those who don’t want to be with God. First of all, here in this life we have the Spirit of God active in and around us. God is the giver of every good and perfect gift so when we have blessings in our lives (family, friends, love, etc) it is because God has given us those things. Here we have a taste of what we were created for, to be in a perfect relationship with God. For those who receive those blessing but refuse to acknowledge the Giver of those gifts, but instead claim that they are the result of our goodness, they harden their hearts against God. If they go through their whole life ignoring the way that God pours out His love on them and then die, they receive what they have asked for: to be separate from God. Since God is the giver of every good and perfect gift, an existence separated from Him means separation from everything that is good. That is why Hell is described as a place of suffering because it is the absence of everything good. Since repentance is also something good that comes from God, those who dwell in Hell will not repent because they have separated themselves from God. One theologian suggested that the locks that are on the gates of Hell are not on the outside holding people in, but rather on the inside holding God out.
That is why every Christian has this drive to tell everyone about the Good News of Jesus love: they don’t want to see anyone trap themselves in that fateful choice to ignore the goodness of God. Just like God, they don’t want anyone to perish, and they know that there is no second chance; once a person is completely separated from God they will never repent because they have no access to the goodness of God. No one has to experience that because Jesus death paid the penalty for everyone’s sin, but if they refuse to receive that God will never force it on them.
Is that how you have understood what the Bible says about Hell?
Jamie,
Every action has a consequence, right? I do something bad and the consequence of that is something bad will happen to me. The trouble is when I do something good something good doesn’t happen to me.
I’m not sure how God deals with souls who do not wish to spend eternity with him. I don’t believe in a hell where you burn and I don’t believe in the day of judgment so that’s up to God. But I don’t believe they will be forced to be with God. I still believe every soul will repent no matter what they believed in the darkness of the physical plane.
Hi Jack, did you read my comment on June 29 about how the severity of the consequences is directly related to the value of the one offended? Since God is of infinite value the consequences for an offense against Him is unlimited. That means there are no enough lifetimes that we could live in order to make up for our crimes against Him. That’s why David wrote, “It is against You alone O Lord, that I have sinned.” This is his Psalm of repentance for sleeping with another man’s wife and then trying to cover up his sin by having the man killed. As despicable as those crimes were, they paled in comparison to his crime against God for doing such things.
Living multiple lives will never set the record straight because in each lifetime we continue to pile up our crimes against God, each one requiring another infinite penalty to be paid.
To suggest that our crimes against God do not require an infinite penalty diminishes the value of The Almighty Creator. If He were to refuse to require the payment of that penalty He would not be acting justly. We all have experienced the moral outrage of a crime that goes unpunished; it is not just. But fortunately for us, God paid the penalty on our behalf by allowing Himself to be crucified on the Cross. Jesus’ death is infinitely effective to cover the sins of every one of us because He is God and is therefore of infinite value. Everyone is offered that gift but it is not forced on anyone. If someone chooses to try and pay the penalty for their own offenses God will allow them to do that, and they will receive what they ask for, separation from God for all of eternity. But for all who receive Jesus’ payment on their behalf they receive the righteousness of God. They have not earned it, they don’t deserve it, but God is His great love offers it freely.
So you don’t have to try an live an infinite amount of lives Jack, to pay for your crimes against God. Jesus is offering you the chance to accept His payment on your behalf. Doesn’t that sound way better?
Jamie:
GOD teaches us by giving human beings a conscience. At least most. GOD also created sociopaths. If the community in which a sociopath lives is cold and insensitive he has a reasonable chance of growing into a murderous psychopath. We all are responsible for the behaviour of others. The greater sense of guilt we feel for the harm our words have caused another is our own self punishment. If we feel no such guilt we will be spurned by the society. In one lifetime you cannot become a pure soul. That is why our souls are reborn in physical form for eternity. The Universe we live within is eternal. Astrophysicists have determined that our Universe is but one of many. They impact each other at precise moment initiating creation all over again. We live within GOD’s amazing Timepiece.
That is an interesting perspective Jack. It seems that in the physical laws there are consequences (disregard gravity and you fall, stay under water and you can’t breathe, etc.) why do you suppose God did not institute consequences to moral laws? How does God teach us to become wiser and kinder? What happens when we ignore those lessons?
Jamie:
GOD neither visits punishment or consequences upon wrong doers. GOD
teaches us to become wiser and kinder while we inhabit our human form. Punishment makes you fear and eliminates rational thought. GOD would never instruct us with punishment. GOD is the only true teacher in the universe. The New Testament and Old Testament, speak of a punishing GOD. That is why GOD did not inspire any human to write these testaments.
What is the difference between punishment and consequences? You said “crime against God shouldn’t go unpunished”, is that different than karma? What is karma’s consequence for crimes against an infinitely valuable God?
Yep, like all the other laws of the universe. It’s not a punishment though. It is simply the consequences of positive or negative actions.
I just don’t think there’s a one true faith and God will judge us on our actions. But of course if faith causes people to commit positive actions then I have no problem with it.
When you say ‘karma will get people in the end’ what do you mean? Who is in charge of karma? Is that something that the Creator set in motion?
Hi Jamie,
Yes it makes sense. As for justice I believe karma will get people in the end.
Yeah a crime against God shouldn’t go unpunished.
It’s just my skepticism about the gospels and also the fact Jesus was the same tyrannical God of the Old Testament. But I do honestly see where your coming from.
I don’t believe we have anything to be saved from though. Even though we’re not perfect as we agree but I still don’t believe in hell. So where else are we going to go?
Would you agree that the severity of the crime is directly related to the value of the one who offended? Just as an example, if I am driving down the road and hit a mosquito, the consequences are negligible; no one cares about the mosquito. Now if I am driving down the same road and hit someone’s pet dog the consequences are more significant; there is someone who values that pet and they deserve justice especially if the accident is due to my negligence. If I am driving down that same road and hit a person suddenly the consequences take on a severe nature. The intrinsic value of every human life demands that I pay a penalty for my actions. We know that when an offender is not justly held accountable for their actions that it creates an outcry of ‘Injustice!’ We have been seeing that often in the last year or so as people feel outraged at the way some people’s lives have been devalued.
Now when we talk about an offense against the Almighty Creator, eternal standard of perfection, and therefore a being of infinte value, justice demands that the penalty for such actions be eternal. It is not that God is some easily offended spoiled brat who vindictively lashes out at anyone who crosses Him. Rather, justice demands that when one of such unlimited value is wronged that the consequences fit the crime. To do otherwise is to devalue God.
The problem is we are the perpetrators of the crime, and we have already justified the crime in our own mind so it is natural for the offender to minimize the need for the penalty. We don’t want to admit that we have done anything that serious. But as you have said, God has created us for a purpose and no one is perfect, we have all messed up and gone against His purposes of living out the golden rule, and knowing and loving Him. We have acted in opposition to His perfect plans and against the standards that are based on His character.
All religions recognize this to some degree: humanity is not what it should be and needs to be remedied. All other religions other than Christianity attempt to resolve the issue through human effort. If you follow the proper rituals, abide by a specific moral code, or attain a particular level of enlightenment, you can offset or pay the penalty for your offense against God. God has revealed through the Bible that no one can be ‘good enough’ on their own; we cannot pay an eternal penalty. That is why Jesus is such Good News! In Him we see God entering our existence and with His death, paying our eternal penalty for us. Since Jesus is God He is of infinite value and therefore His death is able to cover our infinite offense. He then offers us all the opportunity to receive His payment on our behalf. But like any gift it only becomes ours if we accept it. Many have preferred to try and pay for their penalty on their own by following different religious ideals, or by denying that they ever did anything wrong, or denying that God even exists. But, as John wrote about Jesus, “to all who believed Him [Jesus] and accepted Him, He gave the right to become children of God.” (John 1:12)
Does that make sense Seon?
Jamie,
I never said God does not care about justice. I believe we will be punished in this life through karma. I like to focus on this life and how to make this world a better place. Plus consider this, what if the person has done his time for murder or been given the electric chair? Is it really justice for him to then burn in hell for all eternity?
If God has created us for a purpose, to follow the golden rule and to love Him it would seem that when we mess up, act selfishly, that our offense is toward God as well as those we hurt around us. You say He doesn’t hold us accountable for those offenses? That doesn’t fit the fact that God has made us to value justice. I don’t know of any culture that doesn’t have consequences for mistakes that are made. Generally those are in line with the severity of the offense, but you suggest that the One who created us has no such value of justice?
Well, no one is perfect. The best we can do is to try our best and hope God realizes this in the end. I stuff up as well but at least I try.
If that is purpose for humanity’s existence why do we find it so hard to pull that off? I can’t say that I have been able to live up to those ideals in my life.
Hi Jamie,
The purposes would be the golden rule and to know and love God. The differences seem to be man made, like rituals and dogma. But the main overall message seems to be to be a good person and love our creator.
Obviously with Hinduism and Buddhism there is Reincarnation and Buddhism teaches there is no soul. Hinduism teaches there is God and Christianity teaches God actually came down and founded their religion.
But I’d rather focus on the similarities.
Hey Ken, I joined your group but I am waiting for Group me to authenticate my phone number.
As you look at the different faiths what are the purposes that they purport that resonate with you? Do you see similarities, differences between them?
Hi Jamie,
If I could find an answer to that I could write a book. That’s the beauty of this gift God has given us.
It’s fun figuring it out though and exploring different faiths (including the gospels)
Starting a conversation on groupme for Evolved Souls
You’re invited to my new group ‘Conscious energy’ on GroupMe. Click here to join: https://app.groupme.com/join_group/14686819/VQURrd
Not our policy to publish personal information? If we choose to publish our email addresses we should have that right. And you allow us to publish our twitter screen names.
Honestly…if anyone wants to chat tweet me.
So Seon, what would you say the purpose of this is? Why didn’t God just have us in our final home instead of going through this life?
Hi Jamie,
I’ve had some OBE’s. I know some would say they are just the brains perception causing me to believe I was floating above my body and some would say they are evil but it’s real to me and is why I am not an atheist.
But you should still research people’s near death experiences, they are so interesting.
I wouldn’t expect anyone who hasn’t has these experiences to take my word on it.
I believe when an atheist dies and realizes they were wrong they will want to be with god. But if they still don’t want to be with god even though they know they were wrong God will respect their wishes. But as I said when we go home there’s no where else to go.
Hi Seon, I find personal experiences very helpful in understanding people’s spiritual journeys. It may not prove why your belief system is truth but it can help in explaining how your worldview has been shaped. Have you had a near death or out of body experiences?
What about people who adamantly want nothing to do with God? Will God force them to be where they don’t want to be?
Hey Jamie,
My conclusion is based on researching all of the world’s great faiths but also personal experience. The problem with personal experience is I can not use it to prove my spirituality to you. I am interested in cases where some of these have been scientifically proven, like cases of Near Death Experiences or Out Of Body experiences.
Well since the only place to go is home then yes, I believe these souls will go back to God. Once they have reaped the karma for their actions that is. Even Hitler, as evil as he was, doesn’t deserve to be tortured for all eternity.
I think God even welcomes atheist souls. If they have lived a good life and been more good then say a pedophile priest where else can they go but home?…
Hey ken,
I’ll send you an email from [it is our policy not to publish personal contact information], others are free to email me too (even Tom) it’s easier then this site.
I would like to continue with a more productive conversation with seon and cj and other ‘like minded’ dare I say evolved spirits
[it is our policy not to publish personal contact information].
So in your understanding of the afterlife, everyone is welcomed home to God no matter how they lived here in this life. Does that include the people who are almost universally considered evil like Hitler, Stalin, etc?
On what basis do you disagree with Jesus on these issues? Do you have evidence of the what the afterlife is? Is your conclusions based on someone else’s teaching?
Hi Jamie,
Yes I believe we came from God and when we die we go home. The we part is our soul, I believe we are spiritual beings having a human experience.
Yes I disagree with Jesus on that. But I don’t believe he was God and question the accuracy of the gospels but at least you admit he taught there would be hellfire. If he was god obviously everything he said is literal (except for the parables and eating his flesh part- clearly symbolic)
Hi Seon, I agree with you that Jesus’ message was compelling and makes sense. Am I understanding you correctly that you think Jesus’ teaching about hellfire is one of those parts of His message that you disagree with? What about the things He says about Heaven, do those fit your understanding of what the afterlife is like?
When you say ‘when we die we cross over to the other side’ to whom are you referring? Is that every human?
Hi Jamie,
It’s hard to disagree with 90% of what Jesus taught. However I did disagree with his out of date views of divorce, telling his disciple not to burry his father, that he was here to turn father against son etc
As for my conclusion to what Jesus taught about heaven and hell (I posted the verses to Tom to prove Jesus taught there would be hellfire afew posts up) and the bible’s teaching of the day of judgement I don’t believe when we die we go to sleep. I believe when we die we cross over to the other side- (another plane of existence which our souls- our true selves- come from) and can actually watch over our loved ones. Plus since I don’t believe god will give us physical bodies after we die I don’t think we can burn in hellfire.
I’m not really anything, just a guy who believes in some sort of higher power and an afterlife. As the article says you can believe in god and not be religious.
Hi Seon, I think it is great that you have done so much study of the Bible. What has been your conclusion of what the Bible has to say about Heaven and Hell? How does that fit with what you believe? You wrote to Tom once, “I believe when we die we go to the other side and continue to grow.” What do you mean by that?
That’s a shame, I was hoping you would respond to the Biblical verses I posted that show Jesus taught there would be fires of hell. I guess sadly I win. I was hoping to be wrong though.
Tom:
GOD has already shown me abundant mercy. GOD has shown me a former incarnation. GOD has shown me what I must achieve in this lifetime before my next incarnation. Tom you have lived untold numbers of times in the past. The sadness I truly feel for you is because you remain ignorant of all your past incarnations. You will live in ignorance of the fact that you and I currently reside in the only true Heaven that has ever existed. Astrophysicist have published in peer reviewed Journals that we exist in one of numerous multi universes. Eternity has been assured by the clock work timing of the impacts of these Universes against one another. These impact trigger Big Bangs in each of them. Jesus’s corporeal resurrection is His proof to the world that all of our souls will be reincarnated through eternity.
You’re so right; we go around in circles.
“For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools.”
May God have mercy on you.
Tom:
What religion did Jesus create ? None. You have chosen a GOD that punishes. The actual GOD is one of kindness and eternal forgiveness, A belief that cares little for atheists and agnostics is one that is cruel and unworthy of you Tom. Tom why are you driven to believe in such a harsh GOD?
Lol what persecution? Like being executed for being homosexual in Uganda? (something “Churches” in America support), being murdered or beaten to death because of who you are (still happens in America), not being allowed to buy a cake because of someone’s bigoted beliefs? You don’t look very persecuted to me.
Followers of Islam would argue that the evidence in the Koran is a good reason for following Islam, followers of the Bahai faith would argue the evidence in other scriptures is evidence of their prophet, followers of the Jewish faith would make similar arguments to you but use the Torah.
As we have discussed the evidence in the Bible fall’s short. I don’t want to go around in circles.
But if you love your family so much then why wouldn’t you care what happens to them?
And how would you respond to the verses I posted which clearly show Jesus taught we would burn in hell?
The other faiths have no good reasons for believing what they believe. Reasons, yes. Good reasons, no. Christians do have excellent reasons–The Bible and Jesus Christ.
You again make statements of opinion without evidence for support (a straw-man argument.) Christians do care very deeply for their unsaved family members, but at the moment of their death, those family members will have to live for all eternity with their choice concerning Jesus Christ.
Christianity is the most missionary-minded faith on the planet. For 2000 years, Christians have traveled the world to preach the truth of the Gospel through hardships and persecutions. They willingly suffer out of their love for the unbelievers and not for any personal gain whatsoever. Knowing the truth, they desire for all others to know the truth which will set them free.
Islam forces people to convert or die because they think that’s what pleases Allah.
Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses go door-to-door to earn points with their god.
Others usually don’t care one way or the other about those who don’t believe what they believe.
It’s because of the evidence of the truth of the God of the Bible and Jesus Christ, plus the experiential knowledge of a relationship with them, that Christians desire all people to come to know Him and be saved from their sins.
Have you ever wondered why only Christians and Jews are persecuted en-masse for their beliefs? Here in the U.S., everyone is politically correct in tolerating almost everything–except Christian beliefs and biblical teachings. Only God’s chosen people–Jews and born-again believers in Jesus Christ–are being driven into the corners of society. The darkness wants NOTHING to do with the light of Christ, but that won’t stop us from bringing that light into the dark.
Trouble is many other faiths claim their faith is the one true path to God just as sincerely as you claim about your faith. I don’t believe anyone’s faith is the one true faith.
You actually came up with a good point about not expecting people to believe in something without evidence.
And again, why bother with your family in this life if you are not concerned with where they will end up in the afterlife? I am glad none of my family are born again Christians because if they won’t care where I am after this make believe Resurrection I would feel as though they don’t give a damn about me because of faith.
Your lack of interest in praising God is due to the fact you do not know him personally.
If you’re honest with yourself, you should actually thank God that you won’t have to spend an eternity praising Him–that’s because you’ll have your desire not to be with Him forever!!
Tom- Jesus talks about the fire of hell in matthew 5:22, matthew 8:12. Matthew 7:13- 19, Matthew 13:42-50, matthew 18:9, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46, John 15:6
Remember, I actually read the gospels.
Your definition of heaven sounds more like he Bahai faith’s definition. They teach our souls will continue to evolve in heaven and we will continue to learn. They teach Hell just means the souls of the unbelievers or evil doers will be distant from God.
Anyway, I just can’t believe anyone wouldn’t want to know their loved one’s are ok. If you are not so concerned about their safety in the afterlife why bother with them in this life? I just find it hard to believe anyone could be happy with praising a deity for all eternity . One hour of church is enough!
And at least the cool people will be in hell for company.
Considering that God is infinite, we can never know everything about him. Therefore, there will be no boredom as we spend all eternity learning new things, not only about God but about all of creation.
Interesting that you seem to be more concerned about us poor folk being bored in heaven, than about lost folk spending an eternity in hell.
Seon–
Actually no one tortures people in hell. Hell is simply what it is–the complete absence of anything having to do with God. People choose to go there by denying Jesus Christ.
Sure the JW’s have a preferable interpretation. That’s because a) their inventor, Charles Russell, had a dread fear of hell, so he simply did away with it in his religion, and b) they can live their life anyway they want and suffer no consequences. However, not believing in something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Oh and Tom and Chris seriously wouldn’t you get bored after a thousand years? Like when your on a dream holiday?
Hey tom,
So who tortures the people in hell? Why bring them back knowing their punishment? Wouldn’t the JW version make more sense?
Are you really saying you won’t want to see if your family is ok? What about your parents or your kids? I know if mine weren’t there I’d want to make sure they are ok.
Yep I wouldn’t expect anyone to agree with my beliefs without evidence *grins at the irony*
seon…by giving your life to jesus and praying for your loved ones, you will see them in heaven with you. jesus wants to save our Friends and relatives more than we want them to be saved. as far as being bored, dont let your logical mind to cancel out the blessings God has in store for you. remember by the natural mind, noone can know God. romans 8. we must simply receive him and allow his plans and purposes to be fulfiled in and through us. 1 corinthians 2.9 to 10 says eye has yet to see and ear has yet to hear what God has in store for those who love him. it will be worth the walk in life now to overcome sin to see what all jesus has waiting for us on the other side. blessings!
Seon–
“You said you will be consumed with his holiness- so I take it you won’t see him torturing anyone in hell.”
You’re once again making a straw man to suit yourself. God doesn’t torture anyone. People (including you) choose whether to end up in heaven or in hell.
“Won’t you wonder where your loved ones are? Won’t you want to see them?”
Nope. I’ll be too happy to see the Lord Jesus Christ to think about what might have been with others. At worst, I’ll completely understand that they have made their own choice.
“I’m not concerned because I don’t believe god will resserect our bodies. I believe when we die we go to the other side and continue to grow.”
Believe what you want (without any evidence whatsoever to believe it.) That won’t change the outcome for you. You’re simply begging the question by stating what you believe to prove what you believe.
“Plus won’t you be bored praising god after 100 years?”
Nope. I won’t get bored praising him after a billion years. And if you think that’s ALL there will be to do in heaven, you are once again sadly mistaken.
You said you will be consumed with his holiness- so I take it you won’t see him torturing anyone in hell. Won’t you wonder where your loved ones are? Won’t you want to see them?
I’m not concerned because I don’t believe god will resserect our bodies. I believe when we die we go to the other side and continue to grow. Plus won’t you be bored praising god after 100 years?
By the way–
If you’re so concerned about people being in hell, why aren’t you concerned for yourself? And why aren’t you warning unbelievers? Your concern doesn’t make sense with your beliefs. You contradict yourself.
I just answered that.
So will you still see the people being tortured by the being you worship? Won’t you care the people you love are being tortured by the being you worship for all eternity?
At the end of Christ’s thousand year reign, the physical bodies of unbelievers will be raised to live to rejoin their eternal spirits. They will then be cast into the Lake of Fire where they will suffer physically as well as spiritually.
People in heaven will be too consumed with the holiness and awesomeness of God to think about those who made the choice to disobey and ignore Him.
i saw someone mentioned hell. I’m glad they enjoyed the discussions and hope my info can benefit someone sitting on the fence.
I believe in God but how can souls feel pain? When we detach from our bodies we can’t feel any symptoms like pain anymore.
Also no one has answered my question about seeing your unsaved loved ones suffer in hell. How are you supposed to enjoy eternity in heaven knowing they are being tortured by the very being you worship?
One more matter Tom. I gather in your value system, GOD favoured Washington’s efforts over Britain. In other words GOD was with America and against the British Empire. That’s clearly not so. GOD’s angels wept when America won. Washington’s hubris set world history on several wars between races and ideologies where millions upon millions died. This is Washington’s legacy and proves what unbridled faith in your own actions can bring about. GOD prefers leaders who doubt their own beliefs. Those leaders seek the advise of others and do not jump to conclusions. GOD comes to you in a dream to free of your doubt. But GOD did not come to speak to Washington in his sleep. Washington knew he was right. GOD has no use for such souls.
Tom shake hands with Constantine. He was responsible for the absence of humility amongst Christians. But GOD commands us to be humble and to seek justice for those who suffer. Emperor Constantine made Christianity the Religion of Rome. Rome through its conquests persuaded the ROMA people to become Catholics. For a religion to survive in historical times, it required courage and the ability to kill opponents of Christianity. The Christian religion was certainly not inspired by the GOD of Kindness. Tom and Alfred to find GOD, you must first discard your Bible. GOD knowing that you have doubt and are humble will someday appear to you in a dream. It will become for you a wonderfully transformational experience. Be patient, this is the slow path to GOD ALL MIGHTY.
Jack–
So following your line of thinking to its logical conclusion, if I use a history book about George Washington to justify killing English people, there is something evil about George Washington and the history book?
You have built a straw man argument.
Just because someone does something in the “name” of Christ doesn’t make them a Christian. Just because someone takes scripture out of context and does something evil, why would we assume the Bible is not from God? True followers of Christ obey his commands. True believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God and guided by that Spirit.
You are right when you say people interpret words the way they choose. However, Bible passages only have one true interpretation/meaning, the one God intended. True born-again believers are able to understand that true meaning because the Holy Spirit gives them the understanding.
I don’t agree with your last statements about “God appearing to all mankind in dreams.” But assuming for a moment that he does, what is your evidence of it? How would we know it? Since I have a personal, experiential, saving relationship with God through Jesus Christ and yet God has never appeared to me or spoken to me in dreams, I contend your statement is false.
Finally, since in your worldview the Bible can’t be trusted, on what basis can you use the word “hatred” and suggest that one group killing another is a bad thing? Without the Bible, how do you know for sure what “hate” and “bad” are? You have no absolute standard to go by.
Alfred shake hands with Constantine. Constantine loved the Jesus that was described in the Bible. Because of that love he raised a vast Christian army to kill Muslims and Jews. He killed them because they believed in a different story written by different humans. GOD is much smarter than that GOD would never inspire a book that causes his children to kill on another. Christians todays are hated by Muslims. Thank Constantine for giving us that eternal hatred. Open your eyes and your mind Alfred. The Christian bible today is the same one Constantine cherished. We interpret words the way we choose. GOD has appeared to all of humanity in dreams. GOD speaks not to our heart but to our dreams.
I like all the discussion that this article has evoked. Starting from June 2, and working back, I’d like to express my feelings: The Bible was written by God, as people were guided by the Holy Spirit. Each person has his own character, writing style and cultural background, yet the message is correctly expressed in each case. Jesus definitely taught “the way of love” and in his life he also lived it.
Seon, even if the Bible was “written for people with hateful souls”, and has a message for them, they are not the ones who will read it. The devil has blinded the eyes of lost souls, so it is up to those who know God (love Him and strive to serve Him) to live a life that will attract non-believers to God.
June 1: It is our concern now to pray for, and to love and draw-in family members and friends that they find Christ Jesus. It is sad, indeed, if they dye as non-Christians and are destined for hell. God, however, will spare us the pain of knowing about their torture, for we read in Revelation 7:17(about those in heaven) “And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” NKJV. There will be no more regrets, sorrows or tears!
I can fully appreciate what Tom is saying, as God showed me also that I was on my way to hell, and that via Jesus was my only way of salvation! My eyes were blinded till I started to look for help. It was only upon realizing my plight, that was ready for Jesus to lift me up!
Blessings to all who read this.
Hey CJ, any faith can be a kind faith but the Bible was written by stone-age men who thought that way and Islam was founded by a war lord. However, if people focus on the peace and love stuff Jesus taught they can all be beneficial.