Michael Horner's Blog

    Evidence for God from Morality

    Written by Michael Horner

    Here are the lecture notes given at the Apologetics Canada Conference, March 10, 2012 in Surrey, B.C.

    Evidence for God from Morality











    “Is There Any Real Right or Wrong” article (free download)













    One Response to “Evidence for God from Morality”

    • Antony Burt says:

      Essentially you say that:
      1. If God does not exist, objective moral values & obligations do not exist
      2. Objective moral values & obligations exist
      3. Therefore, God exists

      But I didn’t see where objective moral values and obligations are proven to exist.

      One supposed objective moral value you mentioned in your debate on May 19, 2012 was: “It is morally wrong to torture a toddler for sport.” (May not be an exact quote, so correct me if I got a word or two wrong.)

      This is an interesting “objective moral value”. While it is difficult to think of an evaluation where it would be morally good to torture a toddler for sport, the designations of toddler and sport bring up the warning bells. This implies that it IS morally correct to torture if not a toddler or not for sport. This would make the morality of torture subjective, so lets look at some forms of torture (causing extreme pain or hardship).

      Throughout human history (and indeed it still goes on in some cultures) torture for sport has enjoyed by many people. Culturally we put two grown men in an area and watch them beat each other until one is no longer able to stand. Another torture for sport could include public executions (still carried out in some countries.) This brings up questions if capital punishment itself is moral (it seems God supports it). Indeed, even in the bible, we find one story of God torturing children. The great biblical flood (a grand mass execution if ever there was one). Was God merciful? No, he made the waters slowly engulf all the children (and everyone else too). That is a torturous way to kill. Perhaps God did it for sport?

      We see that torture for sport is not universally held as immoral, nor is children used in sport immoral (indeed there are children who box though they may not go for the knock out…) As we look at the constructs of the objective moral value in question, we see it is merely made up of subjective parts.

      Thus we see that this is not an “objective moral value” but a combination of subjective moral values. Which by and large put all together, almost everyone would agree to (except obviously God) that “torturing toddlers for sport” is immoral, but it remains subjective.

      Therefore, God does not exist.

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